Cam Degreeing - another question

OK, I have read articles, watched videos, and gone over nearly every thread on KZR covering cam degreeing. I think I can get them set using the lobe center method, but I'm still having trouble understanding something.

Why does valve lash have to be set to Zero?? Can an adjustment be made to compensate for valve lash? I really don't want to pull the cams over and over again so I'd rather degree them with the lash already set (.004-.006). Can anyone offer opinions on degreeing with some vlave lash present? (KZ1000, shim under bucket set up)
Thanks

id be willing to bet Larrycavan could enlighten us all !

My guess is that it has something to do with cam chain tension and keeping the lobes centered during rotation.
Mark

79MKII wrote:

OK, I have read articles, watched videos, and gone over nearly every thread on KZR covering cam degreeing. I think I can get them set using the lobe center method, but I'm still having trouble understanding something.

Why does valve lash have to be set to Zero?? Can an adjustment be made to compensate for valve lash? I really don't want to pull the cams over and over again so I'd rather degree them with the lash already set (.004-.006). Can anyone offer opinions on degreeing with some vlave lash present? (KZ1000, shim under bucket set up)
Thanks

In using the "lobe center method", valve lash is not a factor on these motors. Lash or checking height has no effect on lobe centerline. Lash effects "duration" but has no relationship to centerline. So degree away and don't worry about your lash.

modprod wrote:

In using the "lobe center method", valve lash is not a factor on these motors. Lash or checking height has no effect on lobe centerline. Lash effects "duration" but has no relationship to centerline. So degree away and don't worry about your lash.

I have read several articles that back up what you're saying, but why is it that most places still recommend removing all lash? Even web cams, where I bought my new cams, says to remove all lash. I just don't understand why??

I thought "Valve Lash" was play in the cam chain. So always turn the crank in one direction

I made it easy buy setting up my daughters video camcorder linked to a portable TV fixed on the degree wheel on the alternater side. So I can do all the turning of the crank from the points side and recording the dial indicater measuring from one side of the bike

It's fine to degree them at running lash. If you have the cam card from the manufacturer you can use their suggested lobe center value but the open and close times will come out different. It's ok, the lobe centers will still work out the same. I'd suggest using .050" as your checking lift.

I can understand wanting to not have to pull the cams out again but it's lot easier to get them dead on by assembling just two valves in the head with light springs. Fighting the heavy valve spring to get a half a degree can be a pain in the arse...

Main thing is to be certain you have accurately found TDC using a positive stop.

Post edited by: larrycavan, at: 2007/08/13 05:23

larrycavan wrote:

It's fine to degree them at running lash...

...Main thing is to be certain you have accurately found TDC using a positive stop.<br><br>Post edited by: larrycavan, at: 2007/08/13 05:23

OK, I'm finally ready to actually degree these cams and the positive stop contacts the intake valve. I'm using the Dale Walker kit and he casually mentions in the video that the positive stop "may have to be turned down". I don't happen to have a lathe handy!!

Is there an easy solution to this major problem? I'm stopped dead in my tracks right now...

Is there an easy solution to this major problem? I'm stopped dead in my tracks right now...

Pull the cams. I always find TDC with a positive stop before installing the cams, no interference problem that way

modprod wrote:

Is there an easy solution to this major problem? I'm stopped dead in my tracks right now...

Pull the cams. I always find TDC with a positive stop before installing the cams, no interference problem that way

Well, that's not quite the "easy" solution I was hoping for but it sure makes sense. I guess it's time to remove the cams for the 4th time. At least I'm getting real good at it! Practice makes perfect you know!

Seriously though, that should work just fine. I can't think of any problems it would cause and it is certainly the safest way. No valve damage, guaranteed. Thanks for the tip.

Quick question about valve clearance:
Web suggests .006". It can be pretty hard to be perfect, so is it better to be a little loose (.007) or a little tight (.005)? I'm guessing a little loose because things should tighten up as the new parts wear, correct?

yes loose is ok.
u can make your own tdc stop buy gutting a spark plug then putting 3" x1/4".bolt through the center with a nut on each end to hold it in place.just adjust the nuts so the bolt sticks out about a 1/2" total and tweek as needed. once its set u never have to change it.
its easy cheap and works perfect.
i use a vice grip chain around the stator to turn over the motor with no plugs.
i just subtract the lash from the lift .so if i want .050" lift and have .004 lash .i set lift at .044".and it works great.this way your # will be very close to Web's cam specs.
Now just lossen 2 cam bolts and leave 1 that u can access snug.now when u set the lift to where u want and the degree wheel says u have to advance the cam say 2 degrees,just loosen that last bolt, advance the crank 2 degrees and the cam will not move.now retighten the cam bolt and recheck.continue untill u get it where u want it.
works for me ,hope this helps.