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Slipping out of gear?
- slickware
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16 Jun 2007 21:17 #150108
by slickware
1982 KZ1100 Spectre
Old. Shiny.
Slipping out of gear? was created by slickware
What would cause the bike to pop out of gear while in motion? I don't think I'm mis-shifting, I can usually tell if it's not quite in right.
It's happened to me several times lately, in all gears although mostly 5th - I'll accelerate and suddenly the neutral light will come on and my RPMs will skyrocket. I can put it right back into gear no problem, but it scares the shit out of you when you're merging onto the highway.
Any thoughts?
~A
It's happened to me several times lately, in all gears although mostly 5th - I'll accelerate and suddenly the neutral light will come on and my RPMs will skyrocket. I can put it right back into gear no problem, but it scares the shit out of you when you're merging onto the highway.
Any thoughts?
~A
1982 KZ1100 Spectre
Old. Shiny.
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- katjbus
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16 Jun 2007 23:15 #150114
by katjbus
Replied by katjbus on topic Slipping out of gear?
could be a bent shift fork, or something wrong with the shift pawl behind the clutch basket area
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- Z1R rider
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17 Jun 2007 06:18 #150146
by Z1R rider
1978 KZ1000, Z1R
1999 250 Ninja race bike
2013 WR250F, fun in the dirt
Replied by Z1R rider on topic Slipping out of gear?
If it's popping out under power, it's most likely damaged or worn engagement dogs. The only fix I know of is new gears or undercutting the dogs, in any case it would have to come apart.:pinch:
1978 KZ1000, Z1R
1999 250 Ninja race bike
2013 WR250F, fun in the dirt
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- RetroRiceRocketRider
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- ...bring in the machine that goes PING!
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17 Jun 2007 12:38 #150230
by RetroRiceRocketRider
Replied by RetroRiceRocketRider on topic Slipping out of gear?
Check your shifter pedal before tearing into the engine.
If the shifter pedal was removed and re-installed onto the splined shaft at a slightly higher upwards angle, it's possible that in any gear you may not being giving it enough "umph" to securely get it into the next gear.
And this may sound silly, but are you wearing diff shoes (boots instead of sneakers for example) than you have done before when riding your bike?
Diff footwear can create an entirely diff feel to how the shifter functions than you're accustomed to, and can possibly be the sole (no pun intended) core of your shifting woes.
Both of the above suggestions should only take a couple of mins to check/adjust, and are 100% free compared to tearing into the trans chasing after "ghosts".
If the shifter pedal was removed and re-installed onto the splined shaft at a slightly higher upwards angle, it's possible that in any gear you may not being giving it enough "umph" to securely get it into the next gear.
And this may sound silly, but are you wearing diff shoes (boots instead of sneakers for example) than you have done before when riding your bike?
Diff footwear can create an entirely diff feel to how the shifter functions than you're accustomed to, and can possibly be the sole (no pun intended) core of your shifting woes.
Both of the above suggestions should only take a couple of mins to check/adjust, and are 100% free compared to tearing into the trans chasing after "ghosts".
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- kzwolfsr
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19 Jun 2007 12:05 #150899
by kzwolfsr
1979 KZ SR650, stock candy persimmon red and crossover pipes
1981 KZ 1000LTD with non stock and more comfortable handle bars and 4 into one V&H
Original man of the Caribbean
Replied by kzwolfsr on topic Slipping out of gear?
I've chased ghosts before RRRR. Looking to see why my oil light is on an took off the oil pan to check screen which was clear, made sure the oil pump wasn't about to fall off as a member here mentioned to his father's bike like mine, that exploded. Plus the bike has a good oil flow, oil gets to the head in the cam perfectly. Anyways when is Slickware gonna answer your question on his topic? Peoples! The only way we can help you is if you help us to help you
1979 KZ SR650, stock candy persimmon red and crossover pipes
1981 KZ 1000LTD with non stock and more comfortable handle bars and 4 into one V&H
Original man of the Caribbean
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- hmondo
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19 Jun 2007 16:01 #150942
by hmondo
1989 KZ1000 P-8 (Police)
1987 ZL1000
1986 Concours (Project Bike)
Replied by hmondo on topic Slipping out of gear?
I'd like to hear the fix for this too...since I've just started seeing this on my KZ.
1989 KZ1000 P-8 (Police)
1987 ZL1000
1986 Concours (Project Bike)
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- hmondo
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19 Jun 2007 16:01 #150943
by hmondo
1989 KZ1000 P-8 (Police)
1987 ZL1000
1986 Concours (Project Bike)
Replied by hmondo on topic Slipping out of gear?
I'd like to hear the fix for this too...since I've just started seeing this on my KZ.
1989 KZ1000 P-8 (Police)
1987 ZL1000
1986 Concours (Project Bike)
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- 79MKII
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- Love Them Kaws!
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20 Jun 2007 10:34 #151147
by 79MKII
The Kaw List:
Current: 79 KZ1000 A3 MKII, 78 KZ1000 A2, 78 KZ1000 Z1-R, 78 KZ650 SR, 80 KE175
Former: 03 KLX400SR, 99 ZRX1000, 82 KZ750 LTD, 80 KZ1000 A4 MKII, 80 KZ1000 LTD, 78 KZ1000 A2, 74 H-2 750 Triple, 78 KL250
Replied by 79MKII on topic Slipping out of gear?
The only first-hand experience I have with this was a bent shift fork. My MKII would drop back into neutral from 2nd gear on occasion. The fork that needed replaced required transmission removal (crankcase split). So while I had it apart, I sent the trans to orient express for undercutting. Very expensive and a lot of work but it shifts better than ever now.
The Kaw List:
Current: 79 KZ1000 A3 MKII, 78 KZ1000 A2, 78 KZ1000 Z1-R, 78 KZ650 SR, 80 KE175
Former: 03 KLX400SR, 99 ZRX1000, 82 KZ750 LTD, 80 KZ1000 A4 MKII, 80 KZ1000 LTD, 78 KZ1000 A2, 74 H-2 750 Triple, 78 KL250
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- wiredgeorge
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20 Jun 2007 11:41 #151163
by wiredgeorge
wiredgeorge Motorcycle Carburetors
Mico TX
www.wgcarbs.com
Too many bikes to list!
Replied by wiredgeorge on topic Slipping out of gear?
5th to neutral? Hmmm... never saw shift forks or shift dogs cause this issue. I would think it more likely that the external shift mechanism is buggered. Shift forks/dogs usually have the bike pop out of 2nd gear.
The external shift mechanism is located behind the countershaft sprocket cover. Carefully pull your outer cover off so as not to damage the oil seal around the shift shaft (take off shifter, of course). Then remove the bolts for the inner cover and watch the seal there as well. You will notice that the shift shaft is connected to two arms. The arms grab a pin on a wheel. There is a cover over the pins. Up in the left corner is a banana shaped piece that has a return spring.
OK, the arms that grab the pins are called shift pawls. If the little ends that grab the pins are worn badly, the pawls will just jump off the pin they should be on and you will end up in neutral, I think. If the spring that pulls the arms/pawls together is gone or worn, same deal... the pawls will slip. Last, the little banana deal up in the left corner. It is pulled down into the shift drum where the pins are to keep the drum from slipping. If the spring on it is bad; that is, stretched or missing, the drum can lose orientation.
If you get the urge to pull the round cover off the shift drum, it will either have a fluted washer under the phillips screw that holds it or it won't. If it has the fluted washer, make sure you reinstall it as this round cover will come off when the screw backs out. If there is no washer, make sure you LOCTITE (blue) the phillips screw.
If you get the urge to pull the shift shaft off, make sure you take a good look at how the shift shaft return spring is oriented on a locating dowel (looks like a stud sticking out of the case).
It isn't a bad idea to replace all the springs associated with the external shift mechanism when you rebuild and engine. The spring on the detent mechanism (banana shaped thing), the pawl spring and the shift shaft return spring. Last note: if you replace the shift shaft return spring, there are two types used on the KZ900/1000 models. The 900s use a 3 loop and the 1000s (or at least some) use a 4 loop. If you get the wrong shift shaft return spring, the pawls won't be located quite right and you will never get them to grab pins on the shift drum. There are two different part numbers for the 3 and 4 loop spring. I think it is generally OK to reuse the inner countershaft cover gasket unless you rip it so have another on hand, just in case.
The external shift mechanism is located behind the countershaft sprocket cover. Carefully pull your outer cover off so as not to damage the oil seal around the shift shaft (take off shifter, of course). Then remove the bolts for the inner cover and watch the seal there as well. You will notice that the shift shaft is connected to two arms. The arms grab a pin on a wheel. There is a cover over the pins. Up in the left corner is a banana shaped piece that has a return spring.
OK, the arms that grab the pins are called shift pawls. If the little ends that grab the pins are worn badly, the pawls will just jump off the pin they should be on and you will end up in neutral, I think. If the spring that pulls the arms/pawls together is gone or worn, same deal... the pawls will slip. Last, the little banana deal up in the left corner. It is pulled down into the shift drum where the pins are to keep the drum from slipping. If the spring on it is bad; that is, stretched or missing, the drum can lose orientation.
If you get the urge to pull the round cover off the shift drum, it will either have a fluted washer under the phillips screw that holds it or it won't. If it has the fluted washer, make sure you reinstall it as this round cover will come off when the screw backs out. If there is no washer, make sure you LOCTITE (blue) the phillips screw.
If you get the urge to pull the shift shaft off, make sure you take a good look at how the shift shaft return spring is oriented on a locating dowel (looks like a stud sticking out of the case).
It isn't a bad idea to replace all the springs associated with the external shift mechanism when you rebuild and engine. The spring on the detent mechanism (banana shaped thing), the pawl spring and the shift shaft return spring. Last note: if you replace the shift shaft return spring, there are two types used on the KZ900/1000 models. The 900s use a 3 loop and the 1000s (or at least some) use a 4 loop. If you get the wrong shift shaft return spring, the pawls won't be located quite right and you will never get them to grab pins on the shift drum. There are two different part numbers for the 3 and 4 loop spring. I think it is generally OK to reuse the inner countershaft cover gasket unless you rip it so have another on hand, just in case.
wiredgeorge Motorcycle Carburetors
Mico TX
www.wgcarbs.com
Too many bikes to list!
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- slickware
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23 Jun 2007 10:40 #152072
by slickware
1982 KZ1100 Spectre
Old. Shiny.
Replied by slickware on topic Slipping out of gear?
To answer the question: I haven't changed boots or anything (well, it happens with any pair of shoes I wear).
I think it might just be my not paying attention. I just got back from a ~400 mile ride and it didn't happen once, so either the oil change fixed things up, or I was extra careful... who knows.
I think it might just be my not paying attention. I just got back from a ~400 mile ride and it didn't happen once, so either the oil change fixed things up, or I was extra careful... who knows.
1982 KZ1100 Spectre
Old. Shiny.
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- katjbus
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23 Jun 2007 11:15 #152081
by katjbus
Replied by katjbus on topic Slipping out of gear?
My 550 does it but its more of a false nuetral on mine. Mine does it when downshifting from 4th to third if i am to light on the shifter
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- slickware
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23 Jun 2007 20:10 #152201
by slickware
1982 KZ1100 Spectre
Old. Shiny.
Replied by slickware on topic Slipping out of gear?
That happens to me too, same gears. In addition to popping out of 5th. But again, it could be my mistake.
1982 KZ1100 Spectre
Old. Shiny.
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