Trouble shooting engine start up

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27 Mar 2007 15:00 #124061 by mountain
Trouble shooting engine start up was created by mountain
I can't figure out why my #4 cylinder won't fire. Carbs were dissassembled and thoroughly cleaned. Bike has a new battery with 12.71v at terminals. Compression cold seems to be workable at 130psi. A thimble of oil in the cyl has proven that the valves are better sealed than the rings because the copression jumps up to the 170's after a tad of oil in there. First, I went directly after weak spark. I did just check voltage at the coil's primary and saw almost a full volt drop to 11.76v. So, I straight shot a hot wire right to the coil primary. Same deal, the #4 header can be held indefinately while it's running. #4 is not firing. It gets a little warm, but just proximity. The other three pistons fire right up. One cyl shy, it has a bit of a struggle idleing, but will hold an idle. Compression with hot cylinders dropped alot. #3 was like 75 or 80 hot, the others were a bit higher. I swapped out the #1&4 coil just to eliminate that as a possibility. Spark plugs have been swapped around, still no #4 firing. I cleaned and reset the breaker points before all this. What next? Pull the carbs and make sure there isn't some ity bity grain of dirt blocking up a pin hole? Is there some simple way to see if fuel is getting into the #4cyl through the carb like it should? It's got compression, it's got decent spark- it must be the fuel delivery or timing.

1977 KZ 650 B1, I own two of them. Working on one custom rebuild, one daily rider. Used to have a third. Two 1978 KZ 650 C2 models, sold both. KZ owner since 1987.

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27 Mar 2007 15:46 #124073 by ltdrider
Replied by ltdrider on topic Trouble shooting engine start up
If you have pod filters, you could try removing the #4 pod, and spaying starter fluid into the #4 carb while the bike is idling. If the motor revs, then you'll know it's getting everything but fuel.

'76 KZ900 LTD (Blaze)
'96 Voyager XII (Dark Star)
'79 KZ650 Cafe Project (Dirty Kurt)
Greensboro, NC
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27 Mar 2007 16:11 #124082 by mountain
Replied by mountain on topic Trouble shooting engine start up
stock air box, but good thinking. One advantage to pod air filters. I just went out and bought new spark plugs, maybe that will be it. It seems like I need to dissassemble the carbs and look for blockage. Here is the bike:

1977 KZ 650 B1, I own two of them. Working on one custom rebuild, one daily rider. Used to have a third. Two 1978 KZ 650 C2 models, sold both. KZ owner since 1987.
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27 Mar 2007 17:01 #124098 by OKC_Kent
Replied by OKC_Kent on topic Trouble shooting engine start up
When you switched coils did you have to keep the same plug wire on #4 due to it's length? Have you actually seen the #4 spark plug sparking? I ask because even if the coil is good, and #1 has spark, it could have a bad plug wire or cap on #4 that keeps it from sparking.

Oklahoma City, OK
78 KZ650 B2 82,000+ miles

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27 Mar 2007 17:48 #124103 by mountain
Replied by mountain on topic Trouble shooting engine start up
yes, I have checked actual spark visually several times, the new spark plugs I just installed make no difference. Still headed towards carb look see.

1977 KZ 650 B1, I own two of them. Working on one custom rebuild, one daily rider. Used to have a third. Two 1978 KZ 650 C2 models, sold both. KZ owner since 1987.

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27 Mar 2007 18:48 #124121 by BSKZ650
Replied by BSKZ650 on topic Trouble shooting engine start up
have you tried putting a timing light on the "bad" cyl to see if it is firing under a load, also does the pipe get warm if you bring up the rpm?

77 kz650, owned for over 25 years
77 ltd1000, current rider
76 kz900, just waiting
73 z1,, gonna restore this one
piglet, leggero harley davidson
SR, Ride captian, S.E.Texas Patriot Guard Riders.. AKA KawaBob

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27 Mar 2007 19:14 #124128 by RonKZ650
Replied by RonKZ650 on topic Trouble shooting engine start up
Sounds like the carburetor pilot jet is clogged or no gas in the carb. Of course you can remove the drain screw towards the bottom of #4 carb and see if gas comes out. I had a big fuzzball somehow go down and plug one of my carbs fuel inlet once.

321,000 miles on KZ's that I can remember. Not going to see any more.

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27 Mar 2007 19:26 #124134 by kzwolfsr
Replied by kzwolfsr on topic Trouble shooting engine start up
Same thing I told him Ron, but good luck with that! As Ron said, just take off that float bowl for #4 and check to see what's up in there. By the way it was really windy out there, almost lost the bike in 1 of those on ramps.

1979 KZ SR650, stock candy persimmon red and crossover pipes
1981 KZ 1000LTD with non stock and more comfortable handle bars and 4 into one V&H
Original man of the Caribbean

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28 Mar 2007 06:16 #124236 by mountain
Replied by mountain on topic Trouble shooting engine start up
The bowl is filling with gas. I will try to clear the jets by removing the bowl while the carb set is on the bike.

BSKZ650, I'm not sure how to check if the #4 cyl is firing under load with a timming light, which is one tool I have yet to buy. How does one do that? It occurred to me to try to rev the throttle and see if different jets sart supplying gas at higher RPM's. Same deal, #4 header stays relatively cool.

1977 KZ 650 B1, I own two of them. Working on one custom rebuild, one daily rider. Used to have a third. Two 1978 KZ 650 C2 models, sold both. KZ owner since 1987.

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28 Mar 2007 08:53 #124267 by fixer5000
Replied by fixer5000 on topic Trouble shooting engine start up
check the choke well in that #4 carb

1978 kz650b pretty much stock
\\\\\\\" get there fast but arrive alive \\\\\\\"
massachusetts

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28 Mar 2007 10:23 #124296 by mountain
Replied by mountain on topic Trouble shooting engine start up
I took the carbs off so it would be easier to take apart the #4 carb, but I couldn't get the choke plunger out without taking the #4 body off the assembly. That is the only part I could not pull apart from the bowl side. I cleaned and ran copressed air through everything else, reassembled and started it again. Same thing. I'm getting pretty discouraged. I'm not sure what to do next. It seems like #4 is getting gas since the rubber carb duct had some gas on it like the others when I removed the carbs. I don't think it's timing because #1 cyl (same firing time)runs well. The engine sounds good when it is running, you wouldn't know #4 was missing if you didn't feel the header. I'll check coil secondary resistence with caps off, but wouldn't that also directly affect #1 in a similar fashion? I'll check compression again, too.

1977 KZ 650 B1, I own two of them. Working on one custom rebuild, one daily rider. Used to have a third. Two 1978 KZ 650 C2 models, sold both. KZ owner since 1987.

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28 Mar 2007 10:41 #124304 by Patton
Replied by Patton on topic Trouble shooting engine start up
Have valve clearances been checked recently? :)

1973 Z1
KZ900 LTD
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