talkin bout V & H exhausts baby

I was thinking about putting a Vance and Hines 4 into 1 on my 77 kz 1000 but when checking them out on one of the parts sites it said they have stopped selling them due to quality issues. Does anyone have any experience with this. What other systems are out there that wont break the bank.

i have a 4 into 1 vance and hines on my 77 kz1000 with no issues..and it sounds great.

K-man, how big is your bank? If it is small, and V&H was your choice because of cost, then you also need to consider MAC headers. If you can scrape up another $250 over the cost of the V&H, you can get the sweetest of available pipes (Kerker). FYI, I have Kerker, MAC and V&H pipes on my bikes...the Kerker's look positively sensual and I get a chubby winding through the gears:woohoo: :woohoo:

Do you think the Kerkers are worth the extra $ ? From pics I have seen the V & H pipes look just as nice (although its hard to tell from photos). Is there performance differences?

When did you buy the V & H's maybe quality has become a concern only lately ?

First I heard re: quality issues w/ V&H was at www.redlinecycle.com .
Now....they were selling ONLY 4-1 street megaphone systems for 900-1000's. They stopped due to "fitment and quality control issues", if I recall correctly.
On another bike forum (damn wish I could remember which one), there was a shot of a NEW V&H mounted on a 75-76 900 I think it was. The front headpipes looked OK, and clearance along the frame was OK.....the NASTYness was at the rear mount, it was a MILE to high, and the mount on the muffler was way to far forward. Dunno if maybe Jeff from Z1 could/would chime in her with more specifics.
My V&H was bought and installed back in 85 or so. Great pipe....looks and sounds great....no complaints at all.....your mileage may vary;)
And call me cheap or thrifty or whatever, but I just cant justify the $$ difference 'tween V&H and the Kerkers and Supertrapps and Jardines....Lots of guys here have MAC...$$ is ok, but never had one so cant speak for or against.

Post edited by: indykaw77, at: 2007/03/23 20:48

I think indykaw77 is correct in many ways...certainly, the performance differences between MAC, V&H, and Kerker are minor, if any, particularly for street performance. That said, and I know this might generate arguments, Kerker pipes (and I'll skip the really desirable pipes like Bassani and Yoshimura, etc.) are more desirable as an aftermarket pipe than the two other brands. That also said, newer V&H do have fitment issues and www.Z1Enterprises.com also encountered those issues...chat with Jeff as he'll be very candid about the problems. As I understand it, some pipe makers have outsourced (what's new) to mainland China and the finished product has quality problems (e.g. V&H and Doremi [which sells replica OEM pipes for the Z1/Z2 line]). To the best of my knowledge, neither MAC nor Kerker have fitment issues.

The primary issue weve seen with V&H pipes is the muffler being too snug to easily go over the collector.

Much of this is just too much chrome on the inside of the muffler. Usually a light sanding on the inside of the muffler will clear this up. V&H may have addressed this as the most recent pipes we've sold have not generated any calls from customers.

We do sell a few Kerker pipes - overall the quality isn't really any different than the V&H pipes - so much of the decision comes down to looks.

The V&H is a little quieter than the Kerker. On my own bikes, I found the V&H to be a better 'about town' pipe - a little quieter, a little better performing in the midrange. The Kerker is louder - not only is the muffler upturned a little (so you hear it more), but the baffling is less restrictive.

Both the Kerker and V&H chrome is just OK - neither do a great job in the collector area.

Kerker packages their pipes better - we have so many problems with damage on V&H pipes - we open every pipe up and inspect them - rouoghly 1 in 10 have to go back.

With MAC pipes, you get what you pay for - the finish tends to be inferior to the V&H and Kerker pipes, plus their exhaust flanges on the pipes tend to bend way too easily.

Post edited by: Jeff.Saunders, at: 2007/03/24 11:46

Jeff.Saunders wrote:

The primary issue weve seen with V&H pipes is the muffler being too snug to easily go over the collector...too much chrome on the inside of the muffler. Usually a light sanding on the inside of the muffler will clear this up. V&H may have addressed this as the most recent pipes we've sold have not generated any calls from customers...V&H is a little quieter...

Took my new V&H to the local muffler shop guy who put an expander tool in the cannister and with one quick adjustment had it fitting perfectly and with no chrome damage whatever, actually no visual difference at all, just a nice easy snug perfect fit. Took about 5 seconds. Slick as a whistle. He just smiled and said, "I'd marry that!" Installation did not require any lube or sealant of any kind, and no leaks whatever. This cure seemed almost miraculous compared to the alternatives.

IMO, extra thick chrome is a good thing. And I dreaded the prospect of attempting to sand or grind chrome from a circular surface, whether inside the cannister or on outside of the header, and manage to maintain the perfect circle needed for precise fitment with no leakage. A cylinder hone might do okay inside the cannister -- but still removes the chrome.

Was afraid to super heat the cannister, freeze the header, and quickly fit them together. Because once normal temperatures returned, the joint would become permanent thereby disallowing any fitment adjustments.

The cannister tab was slightly misaligned, but easily adapted to fit with a short metal strap between it and the rear peg bolt. FWIW, I 've always used a small rubber "motor mount" sandwiched between the cannister and bike frame to eliminate vibration from this area. The mount is a small rubber cylinder with 1/4 inch bolts coming out both sides, about one inch long with male threads. Works like a charm.

Also used a whole can of ultra high-temp spray paint to thickly coat insides of the header pipes, which so far have not blued and remain bright shiney chrome after numerous rides, some over several hundred miles (including several hours bumper to bumper traffic in 90 degree weather at Daytona Bike Week). Did not choose the high priced stuff available at Harley shops made specifically for this purpose (believe it's made by Kreem of fuel tank coating fame -- which I don't endorse either).

Couldn't be happier with the new V&H system.
And don't forget to also order the V&H competition baffle for "off-road" use.

Cheers!

Right on, thanks for the info. Cheers.

Right on, thanks for the info. Cheers.