Realistically speaking, how much would it cost?

Pieces/parts
Steve

swest wrote: You need a hand impact driver for those Phillips case screws.

Steve

Ummmm... they are NOT Phillips heads Steve. You've been wrenching... and on the forum for how long? :huh:

But this is more Eds domain, so I'll allow him to give the JIS vs Phillips post. He does it sooooo well! :laugh:

Thanks! :laugh:

Do not even try to use Phillips screwdrivers on the Kawasaki cross head screws. Despite their appearance they are not Phillips screws. They are Japanese Industrial Standard (JIS) screws. The tips of Phillips screwdrivers are too long & pointed to allow the 4 blades of the screwdriver to properly engage the screws, so when you apply force the screw head slots will deform and look like crap. The fact is that Phillips screws were deliberately designed to have the screwdriver bit "cam out." This was done to prevent production line assembly from over-tightening, stripping, or breaking the screws. JIS screws do not have this problem. A proper fitting JIS bit can tighten a JIS screw to and beyond the torque spec without camming out. Here's the good news - you can easily modify standard Phillips screwdriver tips to fit the JIS screws.

I have ground down the tips of DeWalt #2 and DeWalt #3 Phillips to make them fit JIS screws. The large crosshead screws on the cases take modified #3 bits (or genuine #3 JIS bits). To modify the DeWalt bits you need to grind the very tip a little, then test fit, then grind a little more and test fit, etc. until the bit no longer "rocks" back and forth in the screwhead. Picture 1 below shows how a DeWalt #3 bit fits the case screws of my KZ650 after being ground properly. The #2 DeWalt bits can be modified the same way to fit smaller JIS screws. Pictures 2 and 3 below shows DeWalt #2 and #3 modified bits.

I did find a place that sells authentic JIS bits. They don't list the #3 bit, but if you contact them they can provide the #3 JIS bits even though they are not listed on the website. These folks were very easy to work with, and the authentic bits do work great. Here's their site:

www.rjrcooltools.com/shop_item_detail.cfm?subcat_ID=89

Pictures 4 & 5 below show a comparison between my home made modified bits with the authentic JIS bits.

PICTURE 1

PICTURE 2

PICTURE 3

PICTURE 4

PICTURE 5

Ed

!Seymore wrote:

swest wrote: You need a hand impact driver for those Phillips case screws.

Steve

Ummmm... they are NOT Phillips heads Steve. You've been wrenching... and on the forum for how long? :huh:

But this is more Eds domain, so I'll allow him to give the JIS vs Phillips post. He does it sooooo well! :laugh:

So shoot me. Most people look at them and they look like Phillips. OK JIS. "by any other name"
Keep it simple. Still need a impact for old screws.
Steve

No battle here; a hand impact driver can be very effective. One thing I found really helps when removing stubborn fasteners is to soak them for 2 or 3 days with Kroil. This may not be possible for someone running a repair shop, but for anyone who doesn't need to remove the screws the same day it works surprisingly well. Kroil can be found online at www.kanolabs.com or at some gun shops or gun shows. I have used it on various screws that had not been removed in more than 30 years, including those that held the carb holders to the cylinder head, and they came out without a struggle. I was amazed at how well it worked. Ed

Getting past the heads is the problem. Your point is well taken. The bits should be ground to fit the screws snugly. I kept my old screws for 40 years until they looked so bad, something had to be done. Rather than buying new ones, I bought SS Allens. End of problem. No longer vintage and my bike isn't bone stock anyway. I like the fact one socket will work on all my fasteners in case of trouble. I carry a small tool box on my 40 year old machine.






The old screws looked horrible. The top pic shows the blown gauges but the Allens are visible. Better?
Steve

Back to the question; cost? More time than money. Polishing is a pain in the "arse" but worth it. Doesn't cost much of anything and when those deliveries come, it's like Christmas. I just wish I had thought to take a pic of Bossie sitting under the tree three years ago. My young neighbor didn't think she would ever run again. Should have seen their faces when I put in a new battery and did a burn out in front of his house. Looked like crap but she wanted to GO. That's when I decided to go through her from stem to stern, top to bottom.
"God I love it when a good plan comes together."
Steve

Hey MannDude,

I tend to agree that as a baseline for getting it running and on the road, something in the sub $1000 range is probably accurate. Hopefully a bunch less if you are willing to get at it with carb cleaner, aircraft stripper and a pile of rags and toothbrushes. More and closer pictures will help to see if anything is horribly out of place, or shows signs of gross mishandling of repairs and maintenance. (Mismatching fasteners, anything installed, backwards, upside down, etc...)

As for direction of the restoration, again, I agree with the notion of just getting it running as a stock (ish) bike first, and see where it goes from there. It may turn out you really enjoy the way it handles and rides as is, and just want to get on with the shining and polishing or custom painting from there. (DIY of course, professional painting is $pendy!!). However, if you still have that burning itch to make a bobber/brat out of it, as in photo 2, decide at that point. I know the purists here don't like the idea, but at least presently these 440 LTD's are nearly a dime a dozen, and your would probly be more effort to restore to pristine condition that most people are likely to consider worth doing. If you have the cash to pay somebody to do the work right if you need things fabbed up to create your dream bike then go for it. If however, after riding it for a bit, you decide the 440 isn't quite enough bike for you... (I still have my 440 LTD in storage, tho I haven't ridden it in 10 years?, hard to go back after riding 650/750s for a while...) then save the money and move on to something else. If it's just for crusing around the city, and having a mean sounding/looking bike, then you've got an inexpensive bike which is relatively simple to keep up mechanically to start with. Go for it.

Just my 0.02.

Cheers!
Jon

There's a nice KZ 1000 on eBay buy it now, $2500. Sure shipping will be around $700 but WTF?
Steve

Jonny wrote: Hey MannDude,
More and closer pictures will help to see if anything is horribly out of place, or shows signs of gross mishandling of repairs and maintenance. (Mismatching fasteners, anything installed, backwards, upside down, etc...)

Thanks Jon. Lots more photos here of the engine and carb: kzrider.com/forum/3-carburetor/593575-re...buretor-from-a-kz400

And bonus photos of the bike in general: imgur.com/a/Y8xd8 and imgur.com/a/bArER (Wanring, large photos)

Looks to me that the biggest pain is going to be stripping all that god awful silver paint from everything.

So, from the photos it appears that aside from cosmetic work it will need: right side turn signals, front and back. Carb stuff (unsure what), and two new tires.