Note on Kawasaki.com

Biquetoast wrote:

Skyman wrote:

...And we just aren't willing to make the investment it would take to do that just so a minority of users who refuse to use IE out of principle can access our system....

Okay, it took me a few minutes to calm down before I responded to this.

At my company, and at my home, are Linux and Mac machines. And I'm not willing to make the investment in time to build another PC (with IE) to use services that people like you -- who refuse to acknowledge the business demand of certain minorities -- offer.

Fine with me. If you haven't already started building your services for something other than IE, then you've already missed the boat on a already-huge, and ever-growing, customer base.

But don't worry. People like me -- the minority -- have already made great strides in making our tools work better with yours -- the *current* majority -- and accommodate the incompatibility...

...but thank you for keeping us on our toes...

:whistle: :laugh:

EDIT: ...and another thing... How do you know I refuse to eat green beans "out of principle"? I JUST DON'T LIKE GREEN BEANS...

<br><br>Post edited by: Biquetoast, at: 2008/02/15 18:08

Struck a nerve, I guess? Dude, chill.

We are a small company with limited financial resources. At the time we first designed our system in 2002, the only development tools available to us that could do what we need to do were compatible with IE only. So we went with what we had to work with.

Now there are better tools available that offer broader compatibility with other platforms. But it would take a huge investment on our part to do a ground-up rebuild of our existing system to make it compatible. Our system is not just a simple web page that can be easily redesigned. It is a rather complex graphic design and database software designed to run in a browser environment.

We get very few requests from our customers asking for Mac or Firefox compatibility. Maybe once every few months. Most organizations who use our services have access to a PC with IE. So why would we throw our money at making the small minority happy? It is simply a business decision--not enough market there to justify the added cost, at least for now.

I'm sorry if my remark offended you in some way. I nothing against people who simply like Macs or Linux systems better. I do think, however, that there is a very small segment of these people who take it a bit too far, think that Bill Gates is the anti-Christ, and absolutely WILL NOT TOUCH a MS product. I am not suggesting that you fall into this group, rather just acknowledging that these people exist.

Skyman wrote:

...I'm sorry if my remark offended you in some way. I nothing against people who simply like Macs or Linux systems better. I do think, however, that there is a very small segment of these people who take it a bit too far, think that Bill Gates is the anti-Christ, and absolutely WILL NOT TOUCH a MS product. I am not suggesting that you fall into this group, rather just acknowledging that these people exist.

Naw, naw, it's cool. It was the "refuse to use IE out of principle" remark that got me.

I mean, you're a biker, right? Other people think that you "refuse to drive a car out of principle" sometimes, right? For some people, it may be principle, but for some, it's just because they feel like it or because they want to. And to *have* to drive a car just because other people think you're adhering to some silly principle other wise... well, yes, it bothered me. Oh well, I'm over it... and used to it...


Anyway, I get what you mean about the Gates stuff. I'm always around people who say he's the Christ or the Anti-Christ. To me he's just a guy who did and does what he needs to do for his business. I will defend, until I die, his right to do so. And I will use, until I die, superior products.

I was thinking of you and this thread the other day when I read THIS ARTICLE that showed that 40% of the EU is now using Firefox... and about 125 million users worldwide... In truth, if MS just adhered to standards (even the ones they invent), we'd all be much better off...

wiredgeorge wrote:

Their parts diagrams WILL NOT WORK with Firefox Mozilla 2.0.0.12 (or any Mozilla version) according to their tech guy because that browser isn't support. He said it had too many security issues.

:woohoo:
That's why I'm a mozilla die-hard - IE security issues. Jeez.
Yeah, I have only one bookmark in IE, Kawasaki.com. :S

George, I posted what I learned for those like me with NO access to IE due to the operating system we use. I also reported the web site to the Mozilla folks in the hopes that they can correct the incompatibility.
:S

I just sent an email off to their marketing department to make them aware that they are potentially excluding 125 million plus consumers from fully utilizing their website. I will also send an exact copy of the email to Kawasaki's US based marketing department as I fully expect their IT provider to "filter" out anything but approving emails for their bosses to see. The bet will be my email response will be from the IT provider when I specifically indicated it was a marketing concern and not a technical concern. Hey if they'll make up crap like that "security" excuse they'll do anything.

For those that are using development software that is IE centric, it might do you good to read the following as your MS only site is being potentially failing to work properly by the geniuses over at MS.

Check this site out:
www.webstandards.org/

i have the same problem.. firefox keeps refreshing the page indefinitly.. i've been using safari.. my ie or netscape don't work due to outdated system.. i don't know how many people have macs but safari seems to work fine.

I know you were just giving out some good info Nate... in my case, I use a satellite modem and there is a lot of latency which causes pages to load slowly so I am sensitive to all the extra keystrokes the folks put in who coded the kawasaki.com webpages.

I have no problem with IE EXCEPT that it is a memory hog and my poor old 256 meg memory box running XP Pro isn't memory happy... a couple of open IE webpages and I have to reboot. Firefox is also a memory hog but not in the same league as IE.

My Win-rant extends to their syshost.exe bug... they pushed it out in one of the auto-updates and my syshost.exe file was a MAJOR memory leak till I turned off the auto-updates feature... even so, it will leak to 50 megs of VM size before it quits leaking... I read all sorts of "fixes" to this problem but couldn't find anything that worked so the auto-update is gone.

I will be going Mac OS next time around. Life is too short and I am too old to constantly have to tinker to get this Windoze box working. It is only a couple years old and totally outdated... Win XP was never intended to run on 256 megs of memory and I can't add more do to the cheesy hardware (EMACHINES T3100). Has a P3 1 gig processor too... oh well.

VHS, no, Beta!

Sheesh.

If Kawasaki were Honda, I'd understand the users being upset about no support for Firefox.

As strictly a matter of finance, If you owned Kawasaki:

Why bother to support something built with little security when someone else is paying the R&D costs on a very similar and more widely known OEM product?

Honda on the other hand could finance their own browser.

Having said this, haven't seen too many parts pages on the old Honda website latetly... or any ever, for that matter.

Snap on in software? I've seen and used it in the lift truck industry (MCFA Mitsubishi Caterpillar). Really pretty good.

My unsolicited 2 cents.

Sorry guys, I've been reading Plato. Can't pass up even a warmed over discussion these days. C'mon Spring!

Saki Jockey wrote:

If Kawasaki were Honda, I'd understand the users being upset about no support for Firefox.

As strictly a matter of finance, If you owned Kawasaki:

Why bother to support something built with little security when someone else is paying the R&D costs on a very similar and more widely known OEM product?

Sorry, this doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Up until several days ago the parts diagrams worked just fine with Firefox (still do, just with an annoying bug after selecting a specific model for which I posted a work-around above) and had for a long time.

This reeks more of a petulant developer than of finances.

BTW, are you asserting that Firefox is inherently insecure? All software has issues, but FF has demonstrably fewer holes that are attack vectors than IE and especially Outlook Express. The track record of FF is pretty darned good and the developer's remark of security issues with FF in George's original post is unfounded and not supportable by any reasonable metric.

Post edited by: N0NB, at: 2008/02/25 21:09

I use this extension, though it disables NoScript. Other than that, it seems to work well. Pointless though for someone like Nate on a strictly Linux box, as IE is non-existent.

IE Tab

Most store bought computers may come with Windows and IE installed, but I only have one store bought computer and it's a notebook I bought used with no OS on it. I'll be damned if I am going to spend $200 (or more) for an OS for one of my computers just to access kawasaki.com. So it's not a "preference".

Let's build our website in a way that's non standards compliant and break compatibility with anything other than IE, thus pissing off over 10% (and growing) of our customers. Yeah, sounds like a great plan to me :whistle:

I was just able to use the Kawasaki parts diagrams with Firefox 2.0.0.13 on Debian Linux without issue. Yes, the site has some quirks, but those are most likely the same on any platform.

So, either Kawasaki gave the memo to SnapOn or the Mozilla folks tweaked some compatibility issues.

I found that to determine which model a part number fits, at the top of the page is a box with a drop-down to the left. Select "Part No." and then put in the part number and click the green arrow. The bike models that share that part will appear in the left frame. There may be parts that interchange that have different numbers, but I wouldn't expect Kawasaki's parts manuals to tell me that.