Help with HEL brake line

It's been awhile but with Spring coming on fast I thought I'd better get my butt in gear and do something about this brake line situation.  To everyone who suggested DIY lines, thanks for that, and normally I wouldn't shy away from such a thing (I mean I DID completely tear down and rebuild this bike with no prior knowledge), but considering how many seasons I've been fighting this, I just didn't want to take any chances that my own blunder my exasperate the situation.

@daveo -- Sorry it's been so long, at this point I can't remember if I got your PM or not, but I might have tried again if I had seen it.  For some reason the links at the top of the page won't take me to my messages so I can't even see if yours might still be waiting.  But thanks for the attempt!

So last week I decided to do some more digging, and I came across this company called STG which has Spiegler brake lines, which were the braided style I was hoping for.  I went ahead and dropped in my order, and it arrived in the mail today.  I've got to say, I was really surprised at just how tiny this line is compared to OEM, but I figure the steel provides the support so the rubber doesn't have to be so thick.  Swapping the line of course was pretty easy.  The only concern I have is that it didn't come with any grommets to support the line in the clips, and the hole through the stock ones is twice the size needed for this line, but I went ahead and used them anyway (maybe I'll find something to use though).  Bled the line and pushed through a lot of extra fluid to try and blow out anything else that might still be in there, and the pedal feels pretty solid so she should be ready to go now.

Last week I finished getting my insurance and plates renewed, and this weekend I fired it up for the first time in two years.  I couldn't believe the battery still had any charge, but of course it wasn't enough to actually crank the engine.  Finally got her running though, and was surprised at the lack of the usual first-start smoke.  Ran up and down the block a few times to flush through some of the fresh gas, so now I'm all ready to go!

Except the forecast calls for snow tomorrow (it hit 69 today!), and the temps will only reach the 40's into next week...

I use 1" long pieces of some clear reinforced line that I slit lengthwise. I slip the pieces over the braided brake lines where the go through the grommets.

Oh that's a good idea, I'll have to give that a shot!  I might even still have some of that exact tubing lying around here somewhere.

Well I'm happy to say that the brakes are behaving nicely now (finally).  I appear to have gotten lucky and didn't even have to tear down the cylinder to flush out any remaining gunk (beyond just a normal type of flushing, but I emptied the reservoir a couple times to clean it out).  I've been taking some rides around town as the bike has been mostly sitting for the last four years and not run at all the last two years.  Finally got the battery fully charged again, and it felt like a lot of shellac build-up in the carbs that finally cleared up so she's idling smoothly again.

We're back in the upper 60's today so I finally took a ride out on the highway.  Circled through a couple neighboring towns including where I work, in case the previous issues were heat related, but no problems at all.

So now the only big issue is getting the new seals installed in the front forks.  Otherwise the motor doesn't feel like it's running quite as well as it should be, but it still runs better than my old 650 did so I'm not too concerned about that.  I'm just happy I'm back on the road again and can start riding it to work this year once it warms up a little more.

Thanks again to everyone who helped diagnose the brake problem and then help with finding a replacement line.  It's been a long haul, mostly because of too many other projects getting in the way.  And now that I know what happened, I'll be getting a new front line as well one of these days.

This post subject got me thinking on my brakes. 
Alhough they appeared to be in fine condition while mounted on the bike, both front calipers were actually corroded beyond all hope behind the seals.
Another visit to the old stash boxes produced that near-perfect set of front caliper bodies/pistons I found on ebay a dozen plus years ago. 

So now I have three rebuilt calipers with brand new seal kits and OE Kawasaki brake pads.  New brake fluid will follow mounting the wheels with fresh used tires.

Rebuilding the calipers requires removal and complete disassembly.  After failing to find new ones locally, I decided to reuse the original copper crush washers that came with the HEL brake lines.  While considering the crush washer condition is excellent for being seven years old, they were reinstalled with 19 ft. lbs. torque vs.15 ft. lbs. when installed new.
 
Requesting thoughts on that please.




  




 

Whilst new is always recommended, if they are in good condition and don't leak then they should be fine (worst case is they could sweat a little, they are not going to suddenly burst and cause brake failure) if they sweat then replace. 
PS: be very careful over tightening "hollow"bolts. 

I put the used copper crush washers on a hook, heat them with a propane torch until they start to glow red and dunk them in water to anneal them. Then they are soft and will seal again.

I agree with Dave about doing a caliper teardown while going though the brakes.  Flushing doesn't get all the crud out, and you can't inspect the pistons either.  Pitted pistons is extremely common, and it's best to take care of the entire brake system at one time, instead of piecemealing the rebuild.

BTW, I've seen lots of problems with K&L brake system parts.  If possible, get OEM caliper parts.  Oh, and be sure to use high temperature caliper grease on the sliding pins.  Don't use common grease, get the proper black moly stuff.

My original assumption had been that my calipers were having issues.  I swapped with the spare I had on hand but it started doing the same thing after a couple trips.  OK these aren't in the best of shape, so I grabbed another one from ebay that appeared to be in better condition.  Cleaned it up and installed in, and it started freezing up yet again.  After that, folks here suggested my brake line could be too old (I didn't even know that was a thing, but I had the original stock lines so it seemed reasonable).  Yesterday was my third ride with the new line, but the first trip out of town, but I've already put on more miles in the past couple weeks than I have in the past four years.

As it stands, these incidents with the calipers staying closed burned through my original brake pads so when I put in the last 'new' caliper I had to replace the pads.  I'll probably have to pull the wheel one of these days to see how the current pads are looking, figure I can check the calipers at that time, but as long as everything is working well I don't think there's a reason to do a full tear-down?

Shdwdrgn wrote:

 I'll probably have to pull the wheel one of these days to see how the current pads are looking, figure I can check the calipers at that time, but as long as everything is working well I don't think there's a reason to do a full tear-down?

From what you mention, there is crud in the brake system.  I would do a full teardown, including the master cylinder.  There is a super tiny hole in the master, which if plugged, will cause this exact same problem.  And regarding the calipers, there is likely to be crud inside, which will contaminate your new fluid and lines.

Nessism wrote:

Shdwdrgn wrote:

 I'll probably have to pull the wheel one of these days to see how the current pads are looking, figure I can check the calipers at that time, but as long as everything is working well I don't think there's a reason to do a full tear-down?

From what you mention, there is crud in the brake system.  I would do a full teardown, including the master cylinder.  There is a super tiny hole in the master, which if plugged, will cause this exact same problem.  And regarding the calipers, there is likely to be crud inside, which will contaminate your new fluid and lines.


 

+1

The reused copper crush washers sealed them up just fine.  Not anealed this time around, and no sweaty leaks thus far!


 

Contact Curtis at Hel Performance USA 
(913) 730-7500