Flasher replacement '76 KZ400

Have a 76 KZ400 that has stock lighting at this point but the blinkers work intermittently. Tried replacing the flasher with a Novita EL21 based on other posts here and while it worked, it did blow the main fuse three times on me, leaving me with a 2 mile walk back home...

Looking for another option that will work with stock lighting and the LEDs I'll swap in eventually. 

Seems others have recommended one from SuperBrightLEDs.com ( link ) and since that post is a few years old now, wanted to confirm if that's an option or if there's something else I should use instead.

Appreciate the help in advance.

Hi and welcome.

the fact that the main fuse blew 3 times may indicate that you hsve a serious short circuit problem . Something along the lines of a broken live wire touching the frame somewhere. It will probably be obvious when you see it and problem may not be related to the flasher relay at all. Intermittent flashers - broken wire / bad connection - shorting to frame - blowing main fuse ???

look for anything posted by Wookie58  and in his signature is a link to his electrical fault finding protocol. Download read and use it and it will really help.


I'm not familiar with the EL21 but your basic 2 prong LL552 should be fine for the standard bulbs

Good luck

Appreciate the response and I should have added that I put the stock flasher back in, and while it didn't give me consistent blinkers it didn't blow any fuses after 10 plus miles or driving and lots of blinker usage so I don't think there's a fault, I think it was just that flasher I added.

Looking up the LL552 it seems it's meant for incandescent bulbs and I'm ideally looking for something that will accommodate LEDs as well, given I'd like to swap those in not too far down the road. Had found the writeups from Wookie and plan to get thru them but hoping for a solution to this question so I know what to order and install before I need to place a bulk order for fuses.

Any thoughts on the option above or either of these?

allalighting.com/products/heavy-duty-2-p...flash-hazard-warning

www.z1enterprises.com/sparck-moto-univer...n-flasher-relay.html

I've heard that you need the correct flasher for LED bulbs because the standard flasher cannot sense the lower current load of the LED's (and causes rapid flashing as if a bulb is out).  Maybe the opposite is happening when you use an LED flasher with standard bulbs and the high load blows your fuse ?  The electrical guys here would know for sure.  (Wookie - does your cartoon apply here? )

sf4t7 wrote:

I've heard that you need the correct flasher for LED bulbs because the standard flasher cannot sense the lower current load of the LED's (and causes rapid flashing as if a bulb is out).  Maybe the opposite is happening when you use an LED flasher with standard bulbs and the high load blows your fuse ?  The electrical guys here would know for sure.  (Wookie - does your cartoon apply here? )

To start with you need to understand how the different types of flasher relay operate
Mechanical (load sensing) - One of the contacts is attached to a "bi-metal" strip, when the flasher is operated current flows through the BM strip and the contacts. This current flow generates "heat" which causes the BM strip to bend and open the contacts (off) with no current flowing the BM strip cools and straightens closing the contacts again (on) this cycle continues until the flasher switch is de-activated. The wattage of the bulbs determines the current flow and there fore the speed and distance the BM bends (the flash speed)
Electronic (non load sensing - normally with three wires but not always) - These flasher relays replace the BM strip with an integrated circuit and the flash speed is controlled by a "timer" as opposed to current flow. therefore regardless of whether you use LED's or incandescent bulbs (or how many bulbs as long as don't exceed the current rating of the unit) the flash speed won't be effected as it is determined by the "timer circuit"
I suspect in this case the problem is in "how the relay is wired". There are different types of electronic flasher depending on whether they are intended for a vehicle with "multiple bulbs or LED's" or if they are intended to be used in conjunction with a tow-bar on a car (this type have to power an additional warning light to be legally compliant - in the UK and Europe at least) 
To blow the main fuse you would need to either

• draw in excess of 20amps which would equate to 240 watts of lighting (11 x 21watt incandescent bulbs 
  
  )
• Incorrectly wire the 3-wire relay which would cause a "short circuit"
• Use the wrong type of 3 - wire relay

Generally the correct type of flasher relay will be rated at no less than 10amps or 120 watts - 2 x 21 watt incandescent bulbs + 1 x 5 watt warning light  = 47watts total.
47 watts/12 volts = 4 amps so well within the capability of a flasher intended for LED's

 


 

Guy - Thank you for the explanation.  And that class was tuition free!

sf4t7 wrote:

Guy - Thank you for the explanation.  And that class was tuition free!

Many thanks for all that detail and as I'm an idiot with all of this I need to ask what am I supposed to do with that ground prong from the one you shared above? Assuming I can't leave it open, do I need to run a wire from it to a bolt on the frame or the battery itself?  The one I'd used that blew the fuses only had two prongs and was recommended in an older post on here so I assumed it would be OK to run but obviously wasn't.  Also entirely possible I had it plugged in backwards, though I tried it both ways and blew the fuses both times.

ThatYeti wrote:

Many thanks for all that detail and as I'm an idiot with all of this I need to ask what am I supposed to do with that ground prong from the one you shared above? Assuming I can't leave it open, do I need to run a wire from it to a bolt on the frame or the battery itself?  The one I'd used that blew the fuses only had two prongs and was recommended in an older post on here so I assumed it would be OK to run but obviously wasn't.  Also entirely possible I had it plugged in backwards, though I tried it both ways and blew the fuses both times.

Grounding the "E" prong to the frame or battery neg will do the trick 
PS: Don't beat yourself up, there are a lot of people who earn their living repairing vehicles that struggle with electrics

Appreciate that and last stupid question (for now anyway) is it possible to get a flasher replacement that doesn't need a ground? Or is that a requirement to make all of the above work with an LED or something other than the thermal switch, etc.?

I believe there is 2 wire non load sensing units available but the three is most common (read cheap and available)