? about wiring system on bikes with kickstarters.

While I was working on getting my bike running after purchasing it the first of sept. one of the things I noticed was the difference between how the bike ran before I installed a new battery and after I installed a new battery. My old battery was totally dead. No voltage reading, no spark between terminals, no nothing. I was using jumper cables to start it. After cleaning up the carbs sufficiently I finally got it to where it would run, sorta. I installed the new battery and suddenly about %75 of my problems disappeared. Now this got to thinking about bikes with kickstarters. Are they backups in case the starter fails? Or are they the only way to start the bike? If it's the only way to start the bike then do the bikes have batteries? Or do the bikes have a better alternator/generator thingymabobber system than bikes with starters only?

Just curious questions that have been bugging me ever since I installed my new battery.:huh:

Most (if not all) of the pre 1980 KZ's had kickstarters, after 1980 they phased out the kickstarter.
With a kickstarter you have the option of pushing a button, or kickstarting it like a man
Bikes with electric starters need a bigger battery, and thus a charging system with a higher charging capacity, than bikes with kickstart only.

A battery is still required, because at low rpm the charging system don't put out enough current to keep the lights bright enough. The old BSA's, Triumph's, Nortons, etc were kickstart only (Ok, so Norton went to electric start in 75, I'm showing my age again), but still had batteries, and charging systems by Lucas, AKA "The Prince of Darkness"

Ok, I get it. Kept thinking about it and wondering and knew the only way to quit was ask the question.
Thanks for the info!

The same charging system and batteries are often used on bikes without starters. This is because the same model may have the starter as an option. The KZ400 S has the same charging system as the electric start model, but doesn't have a starter.

If you don't use electric start, you can use much smaller batteries. Some bikes may actually lose a little battery power if idling with lights on. On those bikes (77 KZ650 comes to mind) the battery may die if the bike was left idling all day long. This is true even when the charging system is working like new. (It's actually more of the fault of the regulator rectifier design on the 77 650). But who let's their bike idle all day long? Cops? Maybe.

On bikes (maybe I should say "on KZ's") with permanent magnet alternators, you can usually go without the battery altogether. You just need a capacitor instead. I occasionally go without the battery on my KZ550. The 400/4, 500/4, 550/4 family did not ever have kick-start, I believe. SO I bump-start the bike, usually in two footsteps on a good day with the bike warm. (4-cyl bikes are easier to start than a twin of the same displacement.)

loudhvx wrote:

The same charging system and batteries are often used on bikes without starters. This is because the same model may have the starter as an option. The KZ400 S has the same charging system as the electric start model, but doesn't have a starter.

The S model with a kick starter only doesn't have the same battery(5,5AH) as the model with an electric starter(12AH) though.

Thanks Ibby,I didn't know that.
But my friend's kick-only S had the big battery, the same as my other friend's 400 D with the starter. They're 1 year apart though. Maybe someone modified the S to take the big battery? To put in a starter but never finished?

Either way, we replaced the battery with a small scooter battery.

I still have the battery we pulled out, it's a 12N12A4A1. I was saving it for one of my 550's.

Post edited by: loudhvx, at: 2005/10/30 12:38

Thanks for all the input. I was just wondering. I can't go without a battery at all! The difference in how the bike runs is amazing. I plan on going thru the wiring harness this winter and either repairing / cleaning / or replacing all the bad spots / connectors etc. I already know that most of the wiring on my bike is corroded inside the insulation. That probably plays a big part in the difference in how the bike runs.

loudhvx, it is not only the capasity that is different, but also the dimensions , 135mm x 60mm x 130mm vs 134mm x 80mm x 160mm.

The battery for the S models:
www.yuasabatteries.com/battery.asp?bID=B83&vID=4230

And for the D models:
www.yuasabatteries.com/battery.asp?bID=B101&vID=4245

ibsen22000 wrote:

loudhvx, it is not only the capasity that is different, but also the dimensions , 135mm x 60mm x 130mm vs 134mm x 80mm x 160mm.

The battery for the S models:
www.yuasabatteries.com/battery.asp?bID=B83&vID=4230

And for the D models:
www.yuasabatteries.com/battery.asp?bID=B101&vID=4245

Yes, I understand that, but his S model had the bigger battery in it for some reason.

Bud1 wrote:

Thanks for all the input. I was just wondering. I can't go without a battery at all!

I don't really see why not unless you don't have a kick starter. As long as the charging system is working correctly, your bike can probably go batteryless (with a capacitor as mentioned above).

A bad battery can draw down a charging system. By putting in the new battery, you eliminated the draw. But the new battery isn't putting any more voltage to the bike than the regulator will allow.

Post edited by: loudhvx, at: 2005/11/03 13:42

The output of the rectifier is a series of half sine waves. These sine waves look like pulsating DC with the voltage falling to zero volts between each half sine wave.
The battery levels out the pulsating DC from the Rectifier. This is also why the battery eliminator is a large capacitor. The Capacitor also levels out the voltage.
It is hard to charge a coil with pulsating DC. So trying to run a bike on the output of the regulator alone will give you a weak spark.

Spock