Starting problems. Please help a noobie.

Hi guys,

well the other day I got my bike started. Put in new plugs, took off the pod filters (because the ones on it were absolutely clogged with crap) and after a few tries cranking it on a freshly charged battery, it eventualy caught and started up. I blew it up and down the road for a few minutes and shut it off and then a few minutes later cranked it over and she started right up without hesitation.

One thing I noticed was after the first few minutes of running fuel was coming out of the hoses on the carbs, but subsided after I took it for a run.

SO, then I parked it and the next day, I tried starting it again, no change to anything, and it wouldn't start. The charge on the battery went down and I had to recharge it again.

Next day: So today I put on 4 new pod filters and have begun stripping some parts off the bike. I have all the lighting off (headlamp, signals, taillamp etc. but TAC and Speedo and ignition lights are still there.) I removed the exhaust, cleaned it all up, and heat-wraped the pipes and put them back on. I removed the battery box and cleaned it all up and repainted and then put it back on. All the wiring for the battery was put back exactly as I had it before - pretty simple. Anyway, after the battery was recharged again I put it back in, reinstalled my plugs again and tryed cranking it over. I kicked it over numerous times to no avail, then tried the electric starter. It really didn't seem to want to catch at all. It made one close one but that was it.

I took out my plugs and checked for spark. I was getting spark, but it looked pretty weak, nothing like the fat arc they speak of in the manual. The manual says I may have some sort of electrical issue. So that's where I stand. The bikes has been going on 2 separate occasions now and runs strong once it starts. The idle did go up a little at one point when it was sitting there though.

I obviously can't actually bring the bike anywhere evn when I do get it started because of fear that I won't get it started again. So can anyone point me in the right direction? I'll be reading over my manual tonight anyhow, but it'd be nice to get some suggestions for tomorrow when I'll take another crack at it. Keep in mind that I'm new to all this, so dumb it down a little and dont' assume I know what part you're talking abuot if you mention it.

Thanks so much in advance and sorry for the long post, I just wanted to make sure you had all the info.

Cheers
MB

Check for frayed sparkplug wires. I had the exact same problem on an oooooold dirtbike and sure enough that was the cause (premature egroundulation).

Went through two weeks of hair pulling and manual reading... my father didn't even look at the bike and suggested what proved to be the solution. And the manual didn't say a damned thing about it.

Were the plugs "wet" (with gas from being cranked over and over but not starting) when you checked for spark? They wont fire right if they were. try letting them dry out in the sun and check for spark again, you probably flooded it while it was trying to start, resulting in a worse spark. If spark doesnt improve with dry plugs, try getting new ones to eliminate the possible problem of "dead" plugs. Are you using your choke to start it?
Scott

...just to add, the new plugs I put in, well after they were run for abuot 20 minutes, 2 were carbon fouled and two weren't. When I purchased it it also had regular plugs (7ES) but when I went to the dealership/shop here the guy gave me a colder plug (8ES)... didn't realize it until I got home, but those were the ones it fired up on.

Now should I replace those 2 anyhow before trying to restart? Or swap back to the 7ES plugs? Either way, hopefully I can get this thing tuned out, because I can't afford to put new plugs in it everytime I start it. :blush:

Even though the B8ES are a colder plug, it shouldn't create that much of a diff on first start up.

Like was suggested, it sounds like you've flooded the engine with fuel and fouled the plugs.
I'd check the float levels on the two carbs that carbon fouled the plugs first. Are these the carbs that the fuel was leaking from the hoses, and which carbs are these?
And exactely which hoses are you refering to?

It could also be as simple as loose or dirty connections in the wires to the coils.

Starting with a cold engine: gas on, choke on, make sure bike is in neutral (green light should turn on at ignition to verify),turn ignition on,make sure that the round off/run/off button on right side of handlebar is set to run, kick start and be ready to push choke lever down quickly as bike may rev high at start. This is particularly effective when my bike has been sitting a long time, the weather is cold, the bike is going out of tune, etc.

You can follow the same basic procedure and button start it, but you must hold the clutch lever in during this starting procedure. As you have seen already, when in poor tune it is much harder to start with the button. This is also an easy way to drain the battery. When tuned up well your bike should be a one kick starter or easily start with the button even when cold. Getting a manual and doing all of the basic tune up procedures will likely make a huge difference in starting your bike. If gas is pouring out of the skinny black hoses coming from the bottom of your carburetors, then your carb float levels are likely out of whack. It is sometimes hard to explain something over the net, when a manual with pics makes it much clearer. You can look at exploded part diagrams in the file section on this site.

Hi,
I'll offer some tips on the electrical side, as you mention your battery not holding a charge. Check the connections at the battery, and the ground (engine block) make sure they are clean, solid and not loose or corroded. Fix as needed.

Buy a small battery hydrometer for a couple bucks and check the cells. All the balls should float on a good battery. If they all float, then your battery is OK but it's not getting enough charge from the system. If the hydrometer shows any cells at less than full power, check the electrolyte levels and top it up with Distilled water, then do a slow charge overnight (1-1.5 Amp) and get it back to full charge. Check it again, if it's still weak then buy a new battery.

Get a multimeter, set it to DC volts, and put the probes on the terminals. At rest the battery should be about 12.5-13 volts. Start the bike and rev it to 2500 rpm. The reading should be over 13.5, but under 14.8. Then rev it to 5000rpm and the reading should be under 14.8 volts. If that checks out then your charging system is OK. If this does not check out then go here and do the test. This is in our file base. Go to Community/Filebase/Not Model Specific/Electro sport Faultfinding Diagram. Here's the link.

kzrider.com/component/option,com_docman/...oc_download/gid,252/

Also with the age of the bike you can be sure the electrical connections are old and probably corroded somewhat. You may need the "Coil Mod" to cure your fouled plugs. Again check the file base.

My 78 650 had numerous electrical gremlins and I followed the chart and got things right. I also did some wire replacement and a fuse block upgrade, all well worth the effort, especially cleaning the numerous bullet connectors and applying di-electric grease to them.

Good luck and have fun!

Like stated, plugs should be fine, same as my wife's 650. All suggestions above are good, I have one general tip to share though: be systematic. Make ONE change at the time and check working condition after each change. If you dig into too many things at the same time it makes it harder to find the cause. If you don't have a voltmeter get or borrow one, you need it.

Hard starting is one of the hardest things to diagnose on a newly aquired bike because there are a lot of things that can be wrong.
- battery
- ground on engine block
- kill switch or wires going to switch
- fuel supply
- carburator float level
- gummed up pilot jets
- maladjusted carburators
- coils
- plug wires
- points
- timing

I would highly recommend,since you got it to run before: if the battery checks out, there is fuel flowing and it won't start, check your points and your timing per the manual. Even if everything else is fine and it runs once you get going, if the timings off starting will be a pain.
Also, some things are easier to check once the bike is running (especially the charging system, pilot screw setting and timing with a timing gun)so don't be afraid to use a little starter fluid.