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1978 KZ650 running issues

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07 Mar 2022 20:51 #863359 by Terror
1978 KZ650 running issues was created by Terror
Currently working on a 1978 KZ650 that hasn't been running for many many years....so far to get it running, I gapped the contact points, and made sure the timing was correct, rebuilt the carburetor by cleaning it and putting all new jets and gaskets into it. I then bench sync'd the carb, adjusted the float bowls, and adjusted the pilot screw 2 turns out from "lightly seated".The issue I am having is: When I start the bike up with the choke on the bike will start up but then it begins to sputter and eventually dies. when I start the bike up with the choke lowered and raise the choke the bikes RPM's increase. Whenever I turn the throttle the bike will die. I checked the headers to see if they were warm. Headers 1 and 2 were warm while headers 3 and 4 were hot.Side note: Occasionally the bike will start up and continue to run for a few minutes while the RPMs remain in the 500 - 1000 range.
 

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08 Mar 2022 07:09 - 08 Mar 2022 07:18 #863372 by rstnick
Replied by rstnick on topic 1978 KZ650 running issues
Welcome.
All four exhaust pipes should get equally hot.
Maybe 1 & 2 are not firing well.
Bad spark plugs?
1 & 2 don't share the same coils; 1&4 share a coil, as do 2&3.

What size jets did you use, and are you using a stock air box and air filter?

Fuel level should be checked with a fuel level tool (tube) with gas in the carbs.
This can be done with the carbs off the bike and level, or with the carbs on the bike.

Different carbs, but the same procedure.

This level is too low, should be up near the top of the bowl:

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Rob
CANADA

Need a key for your Kawasaki? PM me

1978 KZ650 C2, 130K kms, Delkevic ex, EI, CVK32, PMC easy clutch, ATK fork brace, steering damper, braced swingarm, ZRX shocks, 18" Z1R front wheel.
2000 ZRX1100
2011 Ninja 250R - Wife's
2005 z750s (aka GPz750)
1978 KZ1000 project
Last edit: 08 Mar 2022 07:18 by rstnick.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Terror

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  • ThatGPzGuy
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08 Mar 2022 08:18 #863377 by ThatGPzGuy
Replied by ThatGPzGuy on topic 1978 KZ650 running issues
The first thing to do is determine if it is fuel or spark related, then go from there. 
You say you cleaned the carbs but, in my experience, there is a difference between cleaning the carbs and CLEANING them. A search will provide you with a detailed how to-on making sure the carbs are working as they should. 

Jim
North GA
2016 Yamaha FJR1300ES
1982 GPz750 R1
1974 Kawasaki H1
1976 Kawasaki KZ400
1979 Yamaha XS650 cafe'
2001 KZ1000P
2001 Yamaha YZ426
1981 Honda XR200 stroked in an '89 CR125 chassis
1965 Mustang
1967 Triumph GT6
1976 Bronco
"If you didn't build it, it's not really yours"

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  • gd4now
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  • Denco where did you go?
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08 Mar 2022 18:44 #863428 by gd4now
Replied by gd4now on topic 1978 KZ650 running issues
This link my help you to determine if the issue is intake or electrical      www.motorcycleproject.com/text/the_60-40_rule.html  

1977 KZ650 B1
Pods and Denco header


OLD KAW OWNERS SMILE ALOT

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08 Mar 2022 18:56 #863430 by Nessism
Replied by Nessism on topic 1978 KZ650 running issues
What specifically did you do when you rebuilt the carbs?  Did you ungang the carbs and soak the bodies in carb dip to clean the inner passages?  

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08 Mar 2022 20:01 #863433 by Terror
Replied by Terror on topic 1978 KZ650 running issues
Spark plugs are brand new, Spark plug caps are brand new, Ignition coils are brand new (installed them today). I was surprised that the #1 and #2 headers weren't warm while #3 and #4 were scalding due to the timing looking good. I setup the floats to allow enough fuel to be approximately 1/8" from the top using that exact float bowl tool. Carburetor has all stock jets (I have extra parts if i need to change that). I actually was running the bike without an airfilter. I have the filterbox but it isn't currently attached since it need new grommets for it. I plan to get some K&N pod filters.

I replaced all the brass carburetor parts with new parts and sprayed all the passage ways in the carburetor with carburetor cleaner. I did not ungang the carbs and soak the bodies. Currently have access to an ultrasonic. I got lazy and shoved half the carb into the ultrasonic and ran it and then shoved the other half in and also ran it with simple green. Not ideal.

Ill take a look at that link and look into cleaning the carbs again.

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09 Mar 2022 05:41 #863446 by rstnick
Replied by rstnick on topic 1978 KZ650 running issues
Running without an air filter (open carbs) will make for a lean condition.
Which will make the bike run HOT.
Also not well at higher RPMs.
 

Rob
CANADA

Need a key for your Kawasaki? PM me

1978 KZ650 C2, 130K kms, Delkevic ex, EI, CVK32, PMC easy clutch, ATK fork brace, steering damper, braced swingarm, ZRX shocks, 18" Z1R front wheel.
2000 ZRX1100
2011 Ninja 250R - Wife's
2005 z750s (aka GPz750)
1978 KZ1000 project

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10 Mar 2022 16:47 - 10 Mar 2022 16:48 #863556 by Terror
Replied by Terror on topic 1978 KZ650 running issues
Rebuilt the carbs again and unganged them this time and ran everything through an ultrasonic/used compressed air to clean em...damaged one of the #50 air screws (next to the main jet), so i am looking to replace it. I checked ebay but I am struggling to find it. Any thoughts on where to look? Maybe i am miss labeling the part?

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Last edit: 10 Mar 2022 16:48 by Terror.

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  • gd4now
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10 Mar 2022 17:21 #863558 by gd4now
Replied by gd4now on topic 1978 KZ650 running issues
Ok so it sounds like you have a set of carbs that have only pilot (or fuel) screw and not an air screw or both.  As pilot screw only carbs (vm22 or vm24) came with the additional #50 pilot jet.  I have removed the additional #50 pilot jets from several different sets of carbs and have not noticed any difference in operation. So if you can not find another one of them I suggest pull all of them.

You should be making use of some type of air filter or as stated it will run lean without some jetting changes. Filters also limit the amount of dirt and other things getting sucked up into the carbs and cylinders.

1977 KZ650 B1
Pods and Denco header


OLD KAW OWNERS SMILE ALOT

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10 Mar 2022 17:55 #863560 by Terror
Replied by Terror on topic 1978 KZ650 running issues
Sweet, thanks for the advice and the information on the carburetor. I am scouring ebay but its looking slim.

I have a set of K&N style pods on their way, when they arrive ill run the bike with them.

I forgot to mention in my previous post. when i used compressed air a chunk of goopy fuel line flopped out of the fuel connectors between the #2 and #3 carb bodies. Fingers crossed this solves it.

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  • gd4now
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10 Mar 2022 19:35 #863563 by gd4now
Replied by gd4now on topic 1978 KZ650 running issues
If you are going to run pods on it it will still mostly be lean. The pods will flow more air than a stock air box and filter.

1977 KZ650 B1
Pods and Denco header


OLD KAW OWNERS SMILE ALOT

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  • TexasKZ
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10 Mar 2022 21:58 #863568 by TexasKZ
Replied by TexasKZ on topic 1978 KZ650 running issues
You said K&N style pods? I hope you mean genuine K&N, APE or Uni filters. Some of the cheap ones are poorly designed and can introduce new problems like blocked air jets in the carb mouth.

1982 KZ1000 LTD parts donor
1981 KZ1000 LTD awaiting resurrection
2000 ZRX1100 not ridden enough

www.kzrider.com/11-projects/620336-anoth...uild-thread?start=24

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