Carb diaphragm

Um, doesn't that fall perilously close to advertising? And you, a moderator...

Actually, George, you're not the only one who can work on carburetors, and not everyone can afford your rates. The whole point of this forum is to share information. Sure, you specialize in caruretor repair, but I've gotten to be a pretty fair hand at it if I do say so myself. Good enough that other people are bringing me their carbs to work on. No, I don't consider myself to be your competition, I'm just a guy trying to fix some carburetors.

So is it Elmer's Probond Ultimate Polyurethane Glue?
Plasti-Dip?
Do you just not want to share for fear of it cutting into your profits?

Post edited by: guitargeek, at: 2006/06/13 18:54

Hey Geek,
I'm not scared to give out free advice!

Use some plasti-coat. De-grease the rubber with alcohol (The rubbing variety... This is NOT a good use for beer), and then apply a VERY THIN coat to each side. Feather it out so there are no ridges. It helps to put waxed paper behind the tear so you have a clean surface to work against that won't stick.

If anyone needs some Kehin or Mikuni slides and diaphragms, let's talk turkey. For less than what someone else is charging for 1 new diaphragm, or a carb tune up, I'll give you 4 good used ones.

GG, Since you are now working on other people's carbs, I can't honestly say why you would want to poke at me for help and tips. Phil gave you some advice; give it a shot... only run the carbs for a few months to see if the repair holds up... I honestly wish you would consider the level of tech help given by other vendors who frequent this board before accusing me of holding back information. Take a look in the Filebase and Articles section and see which stuff gets downloaded the most. I could have probably made a bit of money with some of these tips but gave the stuff away for free... As you point out, I am not the only one who works on bikes so get some tech articles written! I bet diaphragm fixing would be popular!

Hey Phil! You saying I am afraid to give out free advice? Bhwhahaha look through the various tech forums and you will note that I give some advice now and then when I can. Cheers

I notice you still haven't answered the question, George.

You tire me out. Who do you think you are that I should answer your questions for tech help because you order me to? Do you go into a fancy restaurant and order the chef to give you his recipes so you can go home and cook them yourself? How do you figure I owe YOU anything?

My two cents here:

1. Nobody on this site is obligated to explain anything. Those that do (and there are many, wired george being among the most generous with his time and input) are appreciated by us all for what they do contribute.

2. It is espcially true that someone who is in the business of selling the products of his knowledge and expertise is not obligated to reveal what he knows that makes him an expert. He is entitled to keep his confidential business information to himself. It is part of what gives his services value in the marketplace. That is the capitalist way, which we seem to view as close to a constitutional imperative in the USA, and which is followed throughout much of the modern trading nations worldwide.

3. That said, there is nothing to stop someone else on this board from revealing information which wiredgeorge might like to keep to himself. George knows his stuff, but so do others. Unless George holds a patent or copyrite, we are all allowed to use those little tricks of the trade if we can figure out what they are.

4. I think george made it known, in the most polite and subtle way, that he doen't want to to reveal all of his trade secrets. He is entitled to do that, so don't bug him about it. Ask somebody else.

wiredgeorge wrote:

You tire me out. Who do you think you are that I should answer your questions for tech help because you order me to? Do you go into a fancy restaurant and order the chef to give you his recipes so you can go home and cook them yourself? How do you figure I owe YOU anything?

I didn't order you to do a damn thing, George! Let's get that straight from the get go! You and I have always gotten along despite whatever controversy has gone down on KZR and I see no reason for this to change. Despite what my sig line might say, I'm not a complete jerk.

I just wanted to know what kind of glue you use, that's all.

It's funny that I've apparently hit a nerve here. You're usually very helpful and share your information freely... up until now. I find it odd that this would be your sticking point. Surely repairing torn diaphragms doesn't constitute the lion's share of your income! There's obviously an interest in fixing torn diaphragms or this thread wouldn't have been started in the first place. I asked you what kind of glue you use to fix them, you sidestepped the question. I ask you again, you spammed me. I pointed out that you didn't answer the question and you got defensive.

I just wanted to know what kind of glue you use, that's all.

You're known for doing very clean, precise work and people send you their carburetors from all over the world. I don't question that. When I said I'm not your competition, I meant it. I'm just a guy trying to fix some carburetors for friends and family. I'm not about to hang my shingle for this business, it's a hobby. You're the carburetor guy. If someone has a question about guitars or amplifiers, I always give of my knowledge freely, I don't hold anything back. Want to know which tubes, speakers, capacitors to use in a vintage Fender amplifier? Ask me, I'll tell you.

I just wanted to know what kind of glue you use, that's all.

Sorry to ruffle your feathers, George.

If it was my carbs and the rubber diaphragms had tears or holes:

Alternative 1. As a part of a carb rebuild or as a permanent repair:

nrp-carbs.co.uk

This will cost some $$, but how much will you have to pay if alternative 2 failes and you hole a piston?

Alternative 2. Only as an emergency repair:

www.caswellplating.com/aids/plastidip.html

Post edited by: steell, at: 2006/06/30 06:09

guitargeek wrote:

wiredgeorge wrote:

I couldn't repair a carb's diaphragm that had been melted with carb cleaner... it will need to be replaced. I also have a large number of parts diaphragms I use during carb rebuilding in the event the diaphragm isn't repairable.

Right, so what's your recipe for repairing small holes or rips?

Would liquid electrical tape hold up in this environment? Just wondering out loud.

apeman wrote:

2. It is espcially true that someone who is in the business of selling the products of his knowledge and expertise is not obligated to reveal what he knows that makes him an expert. He is entitled to keep his confidential business information to himself. It is part of what gives his services value in the marketplace. That is the capitalist way, which we seem to view as close to a constitutional imperative in the USA, and which is followed throughout much of the modern trading nations worldwide.

You know what. You are absolutley right. It is only fair that information people have been spending a lot of time (and some money) digging up and are giving out for free to their fellow motorcycle enthusiasts, is used by others in their business activity.
That is exactly how a motorcycle forum should work.

The problem is that the US capitalism might not be accepted in other parts of the world as the best way. And since this is an international forum, you might find that some people will disagree about it being a constitutional imperative outside the US.

I do a number of things in my business that I have figured out through trial and error or by other means that I offer as fairly unique services. These would be in the nature of proprietary trade techniques that I am not willing to write "how-to" features about. I haven't patented anything I do and most anyone can figure some of these things out with enough patience and experimentation and if they want to comment on the what and how, I don't mind.

Ivar, I suspect that US style capitalism in the context of proprietary business practices is pretty much the same anywhere in the world. No company in any country divulges all its internal trade secrets or proprietary manufacturing techniques. I bet if you go into the finest restaurant in Oslo and ask the head chef for his secret recipes because you want to cook the same dishes at home, his response will be about the same as it would be in the US or anywhere else, for that matter.

guitargeek wrote:

wiredgeorge wrote:

I personally repair small tears regularly on CV vacuum slide diaphragms regularly.

When I took them apart to properly clean them, I saw that a spot on one of the diaphragms had turned to goo. No matter how gently I handled it, the gooey part still fell apart when I was pulling it out of the carb body.

If I understand you correctly then the gooey spot is more like a hole. If you cut away all of the gooey spot and George has this mystery fix then it should work. I'm sure the patching material doesn't know what made the hole. If all he can do is glue tears that aren't missing any material then I can see the "no can fix" claim.

As far as adhesives or patching practices on any diaphragm goes, it is temporary at best. It is better to fix it right the first time. Patching has consequences down the road, literally. There has been others who have tried patching/glueing with limited success. If you send your carbs to WG to be rebuilt then don't freak out when you see the cost for new diaphragms and ask him to patch it back together, have him do it the right way and replace the diaphragms after all you are paying premium dollars when you have someone else do work for you so don't cut corners.

If you do choose to go with a glue/patch then make yourself an emergency patch kit to go under the seat. Get a innertube patch kit for this job. It will work on all but the worst examples of a blown diaphragm as a "fix" that will get you home. It may last longer than the trip home but don't push it.

Post edited by: KZ_Rage, at: 2006/06/16 10:14