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Project Deja Vu: 1980 KZ550A1

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30 Jun 2022 05:25 - 30 Jun 2022 05:26 #869603 by linuxrob
Replied by linuxrob on topic Project Deja Vu: 1980 KZ550A1
Pattern ones are cheap and they are the same as the Z650 also carb intakes are cheap too,put a new set on the Z500 a few years ago, make carb refitting a breeze. While they are out get some 5mm x 2mm virton o rings for the emulsion tubes they may have gone hard, depending on milage also emulsion tubes can go oval, mine did after 69000 miles. 
No3 was worst. Plug check will tell you

1980 Z500 B2 owned from new 78260 miles
1980 Z500 B2 in bits since 1982 23000 miles
2004 GSF1200S Bandit K4
2000 GS125 ESD
Last edit: 30 Jun 2022 05:26 by linuxrob.
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22 Oct 2022 20:58 - 23 Oct 2022 20:13 #875854 by Sturmeyhack
Replied by Sturmeyhack on topic Project Deja Vu: 1980 KZ550A1
I finally, finally (finally) cleaned out the carbs; I reused the old needles and float valves and so on, replacing only the gaskets, O-rings, etc. I did a rough bench sync and swore them into position, now using new intake boots leading from the airbox. (I tried using an Olde Internet Remedy and Cure-All—wintergreen oil in rubbing alcohol—to soften the old boots. This made them temporarily squishy again, but soon they reverted back to Bakelite before I had a chance to try them on.) 

The next day I managed to fire it up long enough to vacuum-sync the carbs, but it seemed to stumble and bog at 4000 rpm and above. Still, the idle was…. [chef’s kiss]. But the battery was close to dead at the end of the day, so I stuck it on a trickle charger and left it overnight, while I dreamt dreams of clogged main jets and bad gasoline. (Did I forget to blow out the main air passages? Is there a vacuum leak somewhere? Maybe a stuck ignition advance???) 

So. The next day. I rolled it out of the garage, engaged the choke, and (after a few quick cranks and a unkinked gas line) it started right up and settled into a lovely, smooth idle. I took it for a short test-ride, thinking that the stumbling at higher revs would sort itself out as it warmed up. In a fit of irrational exuberance I made it about 20 miles or so before the thing sputtered and died completely. It cranked and cranked and cranked, but it wouldn’t fire up. 



That was as far as I got. 

I stood staring stupidly at the thing for a while before trying to start it again. Because (also stupidly) I forgot to bring any tools, so staring at the thing was all I could, really do. But after standing around hapless for about 10 minutes or so, I tried it again and it started up. I headed for home… 

…and made it about three more miles before it sputtered and died again. (Perhaps it isn’t the carbs after all.) And I waited for a while for it to cool a bit, tried it a few more times, waited, and started it again. The bike made it another couple of miles before it sputtered and died again.  

The spacing between the Chevron stations along 99E in Oregon City is the distance it takes an old ignition coil to heat up and fail again. At least, that was my new suspicion. 

Luckily, eventually I managed to break down in front of a Harbor Freight on the way home. This bought me a much-earned bottle of Gatorade and a pair of pliers to at least try tightening some of the ignition coil connections under the tank. It didn’t make any difference; I still broke down at the next Chevon station. And again, and again, and again, until I finally got close enough to coast the last half-mile or so back to my garage.  

It was a stupid day.  

So it never developed much power at mid- to high-RPM, and spark to cylinders 1 and 4 was intermittent at best.  A friend at work suggested I look at the stator/regulator/battery, so the next weekend I popped open the sprocket cover and checked the stator wires. Then I tried to make sense of the mess of wiring under the seat, where I found a short between the regulator/rectifier and the main fuse box.  

Perhaps that might have something to do with something going funny with the electricity. I checked the battery before heading to the store; it read about 12.81v. When I got back, it was 12.72v. 

The following weekend, the battery had settled at 12.62v. (So, uh, maybe OK?)

Inspired—and now armed with a can of contact cleaner—I dove into the spaghetti. I (again, stupidly) forgot to take Before and After photos, but it was a bit of a rat’s nest under there. So I somewhat-methodically took apart and cleaned each connector, and attempted to make some sense of the wire routing, at least so things like the blinker relay and the headlight-failure doohickey unit weren’t bouncing around on the top of the swing arm anymore.

Here is a dramatic reenactment:



I found a few dodgy connections and a couple of bad grounds between the regulator/rectifier and the fuse box, as well as some jiggly connections to the ignition coils. I cleaned and tightened what I could find. It started up but was running on three cylinders. Cylinder 1 gave me a nice healthy Zap, but Cylinder 4 still wasn’t sparking, and I didn’t pursue matters beyond that. 

So…. Progress. I’m not finished yet with the connector-cleaning campaign; I’ve at least gotten to the wiring under the seat and under the tank; I still have to tackle the wiring in the headlight bucket (I need to chase down a blinker short anyway), but I’ve at least tightened a key few connections and got three of the cylinders working instead of just two. The battery seems to hold a charge, and I didn’t find any corroded or burnt connections anywhere. 

2015 Versys 1000 SE
2010 Versys 650
1980 KZ550A1 (again)
Last edit: 23 Oct 2022 20:13 by Sturmeyhack. Reason: Unvarnished, pathological editorial perfectionism.

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30 Oct 2022 23:20 - 31 Oct 2022 01:22 #876228 by Sturmeyhack
Replied by Sturmeyhack on topic Project Deja Vu: 1980 KZ550A1
Ok. Shit.

Shit. 

The moto gods have decided that my existing, largely unresolved issues are now boring, and that it’s time for some new, additional ones. The trouble is that I don’t think my existing, unresolved issues are boring. I’d at least prefer to resolve them first and then move on to other things. 



Since last weekend I capitulated on a pair of new 4-ohm coils and a set of new plugs. (The dusty old coil, above, is old news now.) Everybody’s sparking now, but it still bogs off-idle…

…if it even settles into an idle at all. Most of the time it climbs steadily without quieting down, leaving me to fiddle under the tank in a panic to turn out the idle-stop screw, until it sputters and dies again. I tried tightening the carb mounts, but no difference. 

In a new, potentially exciting twist, as I was riding around the block the horn decided it just couldn’t stand it any longer, and suddenly let loose a completely unrequested, unprompted, unscripted, incessant (though still pitiful and plaintive) “Meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee…

“…eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee…

“…eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeééëêèēEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE, EEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE..

“…eeeeeeeeeeeeeeep???!!” until I could finally pull over safely and hit the kill switch before the idle had a chance run away from me again. 

Also, my tachometer cable snapped. Granny Smith must be mad at me, though I’m not sure why. (I did buy a Suzuki once. It was just one Suzuki, and it was way back in 1993, and I soon learned my lesson and I’m sorry.)

(Really. I’m sorry.)

At any rate, at this point I’m kinda stumped. Here are the issues I’m chasing down:
  • Runaway idle—unresolved inlet leak? Vacuum leak?
  • Bogging/reduced power at mid- to -high RPM—clogged main air passages? Bad/faulty ignition advance? Stator? Bad/intermittent ground?
  • New, weird electrical issues—
    • I think I resolved a bad ground to the turn signals (before, the relay would click once, but no blinky blinky blinky),
    • “Meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee… [etc.] …eeeeeeeeeeeep?” Maybe need to re-splice some wires in the main harness?
Help! Help meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee….





…eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep!

2015 Versys 1000 SE
2010 Versys 650
1980 KZ550A1 (again)
Last edit: 31 Oct 2022 01:22 by Sturmeyhack.

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31 Oct 2022 00:26 - 31 Oct 2022 00:41 #876231 by Sturmeyhack
Replied by Sturmeyhack on topic Project Deja Vu: 1980 KZ550A1
By the way: has anybody seen my right-side fuel-tank puck (92075-101)?

2015 Versys 1000 SE
2010 Versys 650
1980 KZ550A1 (again)
Last edit: 31 Oct 2022 00:41 by Sturmeyhack. Reason: Added OEM part number

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31 Oct 2022 02:28 #876232 by Wookie58
Replied by Wookie58 on topic Project Deja Vu: 1980 KZ550A1

Ok. Shit.

Shit. 

The moto gods have decided that my existing, largely unresolved issues are now boring, and that it’s time for some new, additional ones. The trouble is that I don’t think my existing, unresolved issues are boring. I’d at least prefer to resolve them first and then move on to other things. 



Since last weekend I capitulated on a pair of new 4-ohm coils and a set of new plugs. (The dusty old coil, above, is old news now.) Everybody’s sparking now, but it still bogs off-idle…

…if it even settles into an idle at all. Most of the time it climbs steadily without quieting down, leaving me to fiddle under the tank in a panic to turn out the idle-stop screw, until it sputters and dies again. I tried tightening the carb mounts, but no difference. 

In a new, potentially exciting twist, as I was riding around the block the horn decided it just couldn’t stand it any longer, and suddenly let loose a completely unrequested, unprompted, unscripted, incessant (though still pitiful and plaintive) “Meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee…

“…eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee…

“…eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeééëêèēEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE, EEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE..

“…eeeeeeeeeeeeeeep???!!” until I could finally pull over safely and hit the kill switch before the idle had a chance run away from me again. 

Also, my tachometer cable snapped. Granny Smith must be mad at me, though I’m not sure why. (I did buy a Suzuki once. It was just one Suzuki, and it was way back in 1993, and I soon learned my lesson and I’m sorry.)

(Really. I’m sorry.)

At any rate, at this point I’m kinda stumped. Here are the issues I’m chasing down:
  • Runaway idle—unresolved inlet leak? Vacuum leak?  Certainly sounds like an air leak
  • Bogging/reduced power at mid- to -high RPM—clogged main air passages? Bad/faulty ignition advance? Stator? Bad/intermittent ground? Sort the air leak before doing too much with the carbs
  • New, weird electrical issues—
    • I think I resolved a bad ground to the turn signals (before, the relay would click once, but no blinky blinky blinky),
    • “Meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee… [etc.] …eeeeeeeeeeeep?” Maybe need to re-splice some wires in the main harness? Sounds like the black wire between the horn and the handlebar switch is going to ground (or the switch is shorted out)
Help! Help meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee….





…eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep!

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31 Oct 2022 08:17 #876242 by Skidmark
Replied by Skidmark on topic Project Deja Vu: 1980 KZ550A1
Squirting starting fluid strategically with the bike running will help locate an vacuum leak.  When the RPM increases you are in the right area.

Retired gearhead
'81 KZ-750 E2
'87 Suzuki Savage 650 Street Tracker (lost in the shop fire)
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06 Jun 2024 15:48 - 06 Jun 2024 15:53 #900383 by Sturmeyhack
Replied by Sturmeyhack on topic Project Deja Vu: 1980 KZ550A1
(I originally wrote this last year, 6/18/23. Oops. Updates below....)

Hello. Back again with an update.

I took out the old emissions plumbing (the vacuum-powered schnozzola between the airbox and the valve cover) and closed up the holes.I cleaned up a lot of the wiring and replaced a couple of loose/bad connectors around the ignition circuit.I also did a leak test on the primary (ignition) circuit, and found a lot of extra resistance around the start/kill switch, though no damage.There is some burned-out wiring around the connector for the ignition switch—the dreaded 27005-5014, which doesn’t seem to be available anywhere.The only (close) match (27005-5024, et al) isn’t a 1:1 swap.

There seem to be two issues with it:
  • The fork lock deadbolt thing on the newer replacement might not be oriented the right way to interlock with the tang on my frame. (Mine’s a 1980.)
  • The newer version uses a different (heavier-duty) connector—beefier pins, etc.
I have so very many questions:
  • Should I try repairing the existing ignition switch and re-pin the connectors?
  • Get a close match and re-splice to fit?
  • Build a connector adaptor (replacement switch -> bigger connector -> homemade spaghetti -> smaller connector -> main harness)—though this might take up more space in the headlight bucket. Should I be concerned about add’l resistance?
  • Splice the existing main harness to fit a newer switch? (Just kidding.)
Ignition Relay Mod

The other detail: I just did the ignition relay mod, splitting the original ignition/main circuit into two: a power/kill switch circuit (i.e., a new Executive Main), which triggers a Bosch-style relay to a new direct feed from the battery to the coils (i.e., a new, separate ignition circuit). I ran a new ground wire from the relay trigger to one of the mounting bolts for the rear duckbill fairing.This seems to have at least freed up a lot of draw (really, nearly all of it) on the main and tail/brake circuits. So all the marker lights and the neutral light and so on are MUCH BRIGHTER NOW.But the headlight is at least as dim, or dimmer. So I’m assuming there’s still a lot of resistance in Executive Main, but I haven’t checked it since installing the relay. My money’s on the faulty ignition switch—or it would be, if I could find a suitable replacement anywhere.

So, more questions:
  • Having taken most of the current draw out of the Executive Main, do I need to be as concerned about resistance in the power/kill switch?
  • Original main/ignition circuit was 20A. Now that 20A circuit (Executive Main) just feeds the power/kill switch circuit. Should I put in a lower-rate fuse? Does it matter? (Where did all the other electrons go?)
  • The new relay (a Hella) came with a 15A fuse. Is that enough to protect the new ignition lead, or should I upgrade to 20A?
  • I’m going with 12G wire for the new ignition circuit. Is that enough? (The only charts I’ve been able to find show resistance/recommendations in meters. But this is only going a foot or two (half a meter or so) to the coil leads. Am I overthinking this?)
  • Am I overthinking this? (I mean, in general.)
Another Also Thing

The ignition timing is weird. I can’t get it retarded enough to match the idle/advance marks. I took apart and regreased the advance mechanism, checked that the marks were aligned, etc. But the marks still don’t line up under dynamic timing.(Note that I haven’t fired the thing up since adding the relay circuit; I don’t want to have new explody problems if I can help it.)I imagine the updated ignition circuit will finally kill the old condensers, so that’ll be something nice to look forward to.

2015 Versys 1000 SE
2010 Versys 650
1980 KZ550A1 (again)
Last edit: 06 Jun 2024 15:53 by Sturmeyhack. Reason: Formatting and general anal retentiveness.

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06 Jun 2024 16:20 - 06 Jun 2024 16:22 #900385 by Sturmeyhack
Replied by Sturmeyhack on topic Project Deja Vu: 1980 KZ550A1
I’m back for my annual report.

I finally, finally, finally, (finally!) bit the bullet and replaced the original points with a Dyna S ignition. I tapped in to the new Executive Main circuit (see previous post) for the power. My original coils are still within spec, so I’ll keep them in there until Something Terrible Happens.

The other day I put the thing back together and fired it up. Hooray! No smoke! No electric burning smell! So my new ignition circuit/Executive Main/transistor ignition updates work! I didn’t fuck anything up!

And after draining/refilling the bowls and re-priming the fuel line, it fired right up and (after a short warmup) it settled into the smooooooooooothest idle ever. Lovely!

Two new issues:
  1. After committing an oil/filter change, the oil light stays on.
  2. Great idle, but still no “vrooooom.”
When I started it up the other day the oil light went out briefly upon startup, but then went on again. I put it away and let it sit a few days before looking at it earlier today; oil level looked a little low, but well within the low/high marks. No new glurp in the airbox. (But I haven’t started it up since the other day.)

So apparently I can’t even perform a simple oil change without cocking the whole thing up. 

Meanwhile I’m getting nothing at WOT. It only goes “vrooo.” And it seems to be running hot. So by my logic:

Running hot = running lean = lift needle valve up a notch = teeny weenie little circlips springing off into the remote corners of a dirty, ill-lit garage.

Today I topped off the oil, looked for leaks, and tried to get to the adjust the valve needle clips orthisopically, a la Allen Millyard. But I opened up the #1 carb and immediately chickened out.

Another question: Is there a way to get to the needle clips without pulling the carbs again, or….? 

(Also: Happy D-Day to all who celebrate.)

2015 Versys 1000 SE
2010 Versys 650
1980 KZ550A1 (again)
Last edit: 06 Jun 2024 16:22 by Sturmeyhack. Reason: Formatting and other silliness

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