KZR's Bikes of the Month for 2024

KZ650 cafe-racer

  • gazzz
  • Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Sustaining Member
More
23 Jun 2020 11:59 #828753 by gazzz
Replied by gazzz on topic KZ650 cafe-racer
That latest KZ650 cylinder base gasket arrived and here how it looks:







Unlike to 11009-046 it has sealant only on one side.



I couldn’t figure out what material it was made of, but it has some structure:


Kawasaki KZ650 cafe-racer: in progress

Kawasaki Zephyr 750 (810ccm, 4in4, spoked wheels)
Honda CB815 "Eight Fifteen" cafe-racer
Yamaha XJ "Eight Ball" cafe-racer

www.gazzz-garage.com

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • gazzz
  • Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Sustaining Member
More
23 Jun 2020 12:02 #828754 by gazzz
Replied by gazzz on topic KZ650 cafe-racer
My next purchase was new starter cover. Old cover has couple of scratches that are beyond simple repair:





So I found and bought new OEM cover. I like it!







And last set of parts is for steering stem. New steering stem nut and washer:





And Yamaha steering stem cup which perfectly fit my steering setup:


Kawasaki KZ650 cafe-racer: in progress

Kawasaki Zephyr 750 (810ccm, 4in4, spoked wheels)
Honda CB815 "Eight Fifteen" cafe-racer
Yamaha XJ "Eight Ball" cafe-racer

www.gazzz-garage.com

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • gazzz
  • Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Sustaining Member
More
23 Jun 2020 12:05 #828755 by gazzz
Replied by gazzz on topic KZ650 cafe-racer
Kick start pedal is essential part of Kawasaki Kz650 cafe-racer project. And even as I could foresee issues of pedal compatibility with custom footpegs setup, I am about not only to keep pedal, but keep it working. I would like to kick bike by means of kick pedal, as I was doing with 2-strockers in days of my youth.

Kawasaki KZ650 had two types of kick start pedal. I couldn’t tell if older kickstarter had separate part number, but these very days both kick pedals go under the same part number: 13064-1005

I’ve met opinion that older and newer kick pedals are of different configurations due to different mount of rider footpegs. However it’s not so. It so happened that I have both KZ650 kick pedals in my possession. Newer type came with KZ engine and older type I found to be installed on GS750 engine that in its turn was installed in KZ650 frame…

Here they are, in folded and kick positions. Left pedal with original rubber is newer type.







Let’s put them together like this:



And it’s clear that their dimensions are identical and configuration is mostly the same:


Kawasaki KZ650 cafe-racer: in progress

Kawasaki Zephyr 750 (810ccm, 4in4, spoked wheels)
Honda CB815 "Eight Fifteen" cafe-racer
Yamaha XJ "Eight Ball" cafe-racer

www.gazzz-garage.com

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • gazzz
  • Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Sustaining Member
More
23 Jun 2020 12:07 #828756 by gazzz
Replied by gazzz on topic KZ650 cafe-racer
Difference is in mechanism that fix pedal in folded and in kick positions. In older version of kick fixing ball and spring were placed under the plug (it’s rusty thing on photo)



And slots for ball were made directly on the pedal shaft:



In newer kickatarter ball and spring were placed in pedal, while slots for ball were in kick boss:



Newer system was simpler (minus one part and thread) and moreover, by its design it removed axial free play. These two pedals on photos above look similarly worn, but pedal of newer type is tighter and its fix mechanism works better.

However, it’s also clear that both kick pedals are far from perfect condition, which is no wonder for used parts that are more than 40 years old.


Kawasaki KZ650 cafe-racer: in progress

Kawasaki Zephyr 750 (810ccm, 4in4, spoked wheels)
Honda CB815 "Eight Fifteen" cafe-racer
Yamaha XJ "Eight Ball" cafe-racer

www.gazzz-garage.com
Attachments:

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • gazzz
  • Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Sustaining Member
More
23 Jun 2020 12:09 #828757 by gazzz
Replied by gazzz on topic KZ650 cafe-racer
Sure, there is nothing impossible: I could dismantle them, remove chrome, polish them and then order them to be chromed again, but it might be as expensive as buy a new pedal. So what I did instead, I searched for new OEM part and found it on USA ebay. Funny thing, but it turned out that I already bought part form seller who was selling kick and that was exhaust mufflers for KZ project. Proper storage means a lot for parts manufactured 40 years ago (last model year of KZ650 with kickstarter is 1980). This pedal turned out to be exactly as advertised: brand new and without traces of rust. I like how it looks and I like sound of its “click” when it being fold or unfold.












Kawasaki KZ650 cafe-racer: in progress

Kawasaki Zephyr 750 (810ccm, 4in4, spoked wheels)
Honda CB815 "Eight Fifteen" cafe-racer
Yamaha XJ "Eight Ball" cafe-racer

www.gazzz-garage.com

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
23 Jun 2020 12:49 #828759 by 650ed
Replied by 650ed on topic KZ650 cafe-racer
I own a 1977 KZ650-C1 that I bought new in early 1977. The kick starter on it has the early type kick fixing ball and spring placed under the plug. However, it came with what you mention is the later type of rubber. I saw many 1977 KZ650 bikes, but I have never seen what you mention as the early type rubber. If that was used on KZ650 bikes it must have only been used for the very earliest ones.

One word of caution - on my bike when being kicked the original kick starter would slightly bump against the brake pedal and hit the foot peg mount. This eventually resulted in a worn spot through the kick starter chrome and somewhat into the metal and also into the foot peg mount and brake pedal. I replaced the kick starter, brake pedal, and foot peg mount with a new old stock ones, made a slight adjustment to prevent contact with the brake pedal, and wrapped the foot peg mount with a thin bit of cushioning material where the kick starter probably would hit it again. I mention this as it is something you may want to check on your bike. Ed

1977 KZ650-C1 Original Owner - Stock (with additional invisible FIAMM horn)

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • gazzz
  • Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Sustaining Member
More
23 Jun 2020 13:29 - 23 Jun 2020 13:30 #828763 by gazzz
Replied by gazzz on topic KZ650 cafe-racer

I own a 1977 KZ650-C1 that I bought new in early 1977. The kick starter on it has the early type kick fixing ball and spring placed under the plug. However, it came with what you mention is the later type of rubber. I saw many 1977 KZ650 bikes, but I have never seen what you mention as the early type rubber. If that was used on KZ650 bikes it must have only been used for the very earliest ones


I only wished to say that older type of kick pedal on my photos have non original rubber. In fact it's rubber from soviet motorcycle' kick pedal. I think that both types of kick pedal originally have similar rubbers.


One word of caution - on my bike when being kicked the original kick starter would slightly bump against the brake pedal and hit the foot peg mount. This eventually resulted in a worn spot through the kick starter chrome and somewhat into the metal and also into the foot peg mount and brake pedal. I replaced the kick starter, brake pedal, and foot peg mount with a new old stock ones, made a slight adjustment to prevent contact with the brake pedal, and wrapped the foot peg mount with a thin bit of cushioning material where the kick starter probably would hit it again. I mention this as it is something you may want to check on your bike. Ed


Thank you, I noticed that both pedals have signs of impact in same places, where they come into contact with foot peg mount. It might happen that I'll move foot pegs backward. In this case kicking of pedal will be available only with rider foot peg folded, but it will solve issue of impact:)

Kawasaki KZ650 cafe-racer: in progress

Kawasaki Zephyr 750 (810ccm, 4in4, spoked wheels)
Honda CB815 "Eight Fifteen" cafe-racer
Yamaha XJ "Eight Ball" cafe-racer

www.gazzz-garage.com
Last edit: 23 Jun 2020 13:30 by gazzz.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • gazzz
  • Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Sustaining Member
More
24 Jun 2020 10:57 #828870 by gazzz
Replied by gazzz on topic KZ650 cafe-racer
One might remember my posts about cylinder heads for Kawasaki KZ650 project. In short: my intention was to use KZ750 cylinder head of early production years, so it’d be compatible with early KZ650 timing chain tension system. In result I became owner of quite a collection of KZ750 cylinder heads, none of which I could use in project: valve seats of two of them were destroyed by two different specialized workshops (it’s still mystery to me how such things might of happen) and one head was sold to me with valve seat already cracked (this fact wasn’t indicated on ebay listing or shown on photos).

After so many unsuccessful attempts most of people, I assume, would give up. But not me. For me story just began, as I found that I could buy new KZ750 cylinder head. Even more, there were two of them, and both were in Germany. The first one was advertised on www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de (German classified ads board) with price EUR 480, with notice that negotiation is acceptable and set of photos of brand new 11002-1069 cylinder head (fits late KZ650 and early KZ750) in original packaging.



Second cylinder head was for sale at Motorrad Spängler GmbH (motorcycle parts shop located at: Am Richterfeld 1, 91781 Weißenburg in Bayern) with notice “new” and price EUR 499, and also set of photos of brand new 11002-1069 cylinder head in original packaging.





My intention was to buy cylinder head on ebay-kleinanzeigen, however 480 EUR is quite a lot of money even for the brand new part, and this price would not be final. We here in Ukraine must pay around 30% (20% VAT and 10% of customs fee) on top of difference between goods price and basic non-taxable minimum of UER 100 for all goods priced over EUR 100. This means more than 100 EUR of payment to state budget. Delivery fee and PayPal fee (around 2-6% of price of goods + shipping) have to be taken in account also. As my partner knows trick or two about laws, custom base excl. cost of shipment. Thus estimated price of imported cylinder head might be around EUR 650.

I couldn’t throw such money on one part that freely, not without potential strain on other aspects of project and orders’ fulfilment. We were working on this issue, however when I was ready for purchase, it turned out that cylinder head on ebay-kleinanzeigen was not on sale anymore.

This left me with no options, but to contact Motorrad Spängler GmbH with question about cylinder head availability. I was answered by Siegfried Spängler himself and to my joy part was still in stock. There was statement on website that price already included VAT. When part leaves European Union VAT have to be excluded from part price. This works well with large companies like Wemoto, Louis or Polo, but not with smaller players. With them it’s pain in ass. So instead of talking about VAT I just offered to lower price on VAT value Euro 100, but seller did not agree, reasoning that the part is “new and oldtimer”. We agreed on the price EUR 450 for part (in fact the seller raised the prise for me as for me as foreigner by Euro 50) and it took him few days to figure shipping fee (35 EUR) and that I have to pay 6% of PayPal fee. I paid immediately as he informed me his PayPal address and it cost me 514 EUR. I agreed on this conditions only on the grounds of brand new part, with all benefits it brings: spare my time and money at least with this cylinder head.

Kawasaki KZ650 cafe-racer: in progress

Kawasaki Zephyr 750 (810ccm, 4in4, spoked wheels)
Honda CB815 "Eight Fifteen" cafe-racer
Yamaha XJ "Eight Ball" cafe-racer

www.gazzz-garage.com
Attachments:

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • gazzz
  • Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Sustaining Member
More
24 Jun 2020 10:58 #828871 by gazzz
Replied by gazzz on topic KZ650 cafe-racer
It took slightly more than four weeks after I made complete payment to Herr. Spangler for cylinder head to be delivered to me (incl. 10 days spent in customs). I paid 105 EUR of Ukrainan import fees and VAT.

When the parcel has finally arrived, and I opened box (which was not original cylinder head box) the only thought in my mind was “Houston, we have a problem here”. When I put cylinder head out from plastic bag it became obvious that cylinder head wasn’t stored properly. Preservation oil dried out and humidity harvested on camshaft cap bolts. However, real problem was that something leaked into plastic bag and ate both: aluminium and steel. My first thought it was acid, but finally I concluded that it most probably was alkali. Alkali eats aluminium and it removes zinc plating pretty well. Here is how KZ750 cylinder head looked when it arrived to me:












Kawasaki KZ650 cafe-racer: in progress

Kawasaki Zephyr 750 (810ccm, 4in4, spoked wheels)
Honda CB815 "Eight Fifteen" cafe-racer
Yamaha XJ "Eight Ball" cafe-racer

www.gazzz-garage.com

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • gazzz
  • Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Sustaining Member
More
24 Jun 2020 11:02 #828872 by gazzz
Replied by gazzz on topic KZ650 cafe-racer
Sure, it’s not what one may expect when he bought part that was advertised as new, so I informed Siegfried Spängler about cylinder head condition (rusty steel parts, oxidized aluminium) and sent him photos. His answer was as un expectable as part condition:

” what is brown there. is oil and not rust! because aluminum does not rust! the parts are about 40 years old! Small rust spots on the screw heads are normal but not important. just take some petrol and wipe it off ”


I was sure that I could tell oil depositions from rust and aluminium oxidation and wrote that to Mr Spängler and expressed my bewilderment over the fact that actual part is so far from photos and advertisement placed on his website. I also offered him to make partial refund of money (100 EUR and I was opened for counteroffer). The answer was:

“please send the cylinder head back. we have several of them there. was not recognizable for the packer, because for him new is new and cleaning is always necessary for parts that are 40 years old. The replacement also has brane deposits of oil. so no rust again.”


However, Herr Spängler refused to cover expenses caused solely by him (in fact by his deliberate deception). And with 105 EUR of import fees and 35 EUR for sending it back it is not only 140 EUR and month of time lost: my money would be frozen till he receives the part back which might take yet one month, provided he would accept his fault. Therefore, this offer was quite safe for him and had no sense for me.

I am great believer in common sense, so I made yet another attempt to bring the man to his senses. I just did as he wished: washed cylinder with clean petrol. No wonder, aluminium oxidations and rust didn’t disappear. Moreover, they became even more visible.


















Kawasaki KZ650 cafe-racer: in progress

Kawasaki Zephyr 750 (810ccm, 4in4, spoked wheels)
Honda CB815 "Eight Fifteen" cafe-racer
Yamaha XJ "Eight Ball" cafe-racer

www.gazzz-garage.com

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • gazzz
  • Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Sustaining Member
More
24 Jun 2020 11:03 #828873 by gazzz
Replied by gazzz on topic KZ650 cafe-racer
I sent new pictures of flaws to Siegfried Spängler and this time I wasn’t at all surprised by his answer:

“technically and optically there is no disadvantage after installation. little rust on the screws after 40 years should not be a problem!. the sealing surfaces are covered by the seals. We are used to a lot from our customers, but what they are claiming, with a 40 year old part, is a long way off. if it is too expensive for you, why do you order it? if you have been in the closet for 40 years, you are no longer as before. so please remain factual. “


And I about to stick to his advice and to “remain factual”. And facts are simple: Siegfried Spängler from Motorrad Spängler GmbH knows perfectly how to turn blind eye to facts and looks like he doesn’t give a dime for his own reputation. So, if for some occasion you have to do business with him, beware and check twice what you will get for your money before you pay him.

As for me and this very cylinder head I am about to continue with it as damages are not beyond repair. I cleaned oxidation further to be sure that head could be surfaced.






Kawasaki KZ650 cafe-racer: in progress

Kawasaki Zephyr 750 (810ccm, 4in4, spoked wheels)
Honda CB815 "Eight Fifteen" cafe-racer
Yamaha XJ "Eight Ball" cafe-racer

www.gazzz-garage.com
Attachments:

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • gazzz
  • Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Sustaining Member
More
24 Jun 2020 11:06 #828875 by gazzz
Replied by gazzz on topic KZ650 cafe-racer
Removing of camshaft caps gave me headache. Not only bolt cups were rusty, rust was on bolt bodies and dowel pins as well:



So three camshaft caps stuck as well as number of dowel pins.



I soaked them in penetrating oil and removed one by one without any damage to parts.



Cam cap bolts and dowel pins:





I made additional cleaning to the cylinder head and continue work on it, but I assume it enough for one approach, so: to be continued.

Kawasaki KZ650 cafe-racer: in progress

Kawasaki Zephyr 750 (810ccm, 4in4, spoked wheels)
Honda CB815 "Eight Fifteen" cafe-racer
Yamaha XJ "Eight Ball" cafe-racer

www.gazzz-garage.com

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Powered by Kunena Forum

If you like KZR Please consider making a donation. Thank you.

KZRider is free, but not without cost.

Please consider chipping in a few bucks to help cover the cost of running the KZR servers.