TOPIC:

I have a Vesrah VG-439 gasket kit for a 1981 KZ1000J engine. I'm seeing the larger gaskets for pretty much the entire case, with the exception of what goes between the case halves. Now admittedly this would be an odd shape, and I expected there to be several pieces to follow around the edge of the case, but I'm not finding anything in this package that would match. Are there not supposed to be any gaskets for the case halves? If that is true, what should I be using to slap this together? Just any old gasket-maker in a tube, or should I look for something in particular?

(On a side note, I finally figured out the neutral position of the shifter, and confirmed that everything fits together perfectly between the cases now.)

Threebond 1184 sealer for between the engine case halves. www.amazon.com/Three-Bond-Sealant-Liquid...4A100G/dp/B007TWXI1K

There are other misc other items that need to be sealed similarly, as detailed in the factory Kawasaki service manual.

Thanks. I kinda figured it was going to come down to that when I couldn't even find a separate listing for the case gasket. I ended up just using Permatex ultra-black which has worked well for me in the past. Got the case together, confirmed the shifter was working smoothly, then put the oil pan on...

...and then I ran into trouble...

Grrr. Something doesn't fit right. Test-fitting the oil filter pieces and I realized the rubber O-ring does NOT sit on the flat bottom of the pan, but rather fits just inside the opening. What the?!?! The crazy thing is these are the original parts that were on the bike, and it wasn't leaking when I got it. Fortunately I have parts of another engine sitting around, so I compared the bottom plate and they are the same, but there are obvious differences in the oil pan itself. Mind you, this pan lined up perfectly to all the bolt holes, so it must have come from a very similar engine, but I'm pretty certain I will be fighting constant leaks if I don't swap out the pans. At least this is a fairly straightforward piece to sandblast and paint. Unfortunately it will be a couple weeks before I can get to it.

First thing I'd do is take it all back apart and get that black shit out of it and use Three bond,
Hondabond, Yamabond it's all the same any dealer has it.

zukdave wrote: First thing I'd do is take it all back apart and get that black shit out of it and use Three bond,
Hondabond, Yamabond it's all the same any dealer has it.

Kinda harsh here. Threebond 1207B, which was used by Kawasaki when my 750E was built, is black RTV. It's good stuff too. You just gotta be careful to not use too much.

Also, there are various types of the gray Threebond sealer too. Some fast dry and others slow, and even a gray RTV.

DO not EVER use RTV to seal case halves, it will not last, ask me how I know this.

Ugh ok... the ultra-black was recommended to me, but with all the varying opinions I did some more research to see what I could find, and finally found something that makes sense... The ultra-black is good for *most* situations where you have continuous contact with gas and oil, however the ultra-grey (which is apparently the same stuff as threebond etc.) is specifically made where you need a very thin film and tight tolerances -- such as between case halves. So from what I'm reading, the only reason the black fails in this situation is because it doesn't thin out enough when you torque the bolts, not because it has any different characteristics in oil resistance.

Regardless of the reason, yeah it definitely looks like I should peel out the black and do it again. I might have a chance this weekend to get to the Kaw shop and pick up some of the grey stuff.

That Ultra Black stuff is okay for between the cases as long as you applied it properly (thinly). I'm repeating myself but Kawasaki used Threebond 1207B RTV between the cases on my 750. I bought some and used it during my recent rebuild too. Suzuki specs 1207B on some engines as well, mostly the black ones. 1207B is black, and the common Threebond liquid gasket stuff (such as 1184) is gray and looks bad with a black engine.

As an aside a lot of automakers use RTV in place of gaskets on their engines. I find it laughable that people with motorcycles bash RTV so much but the auto companies are using RTV more and more. You just gotta use the right formula of RTV and apply it properly.

I have used the Ultra Black RTV many times for case 1/2's and other "no gasket" assemblies - cars, trucks, dirt bikes, ATV's, street bikes - never had any issues. I am meticulous when assembling stuff that holds back fluids, especially engines, however. Between cases my rules are CLEAN, and THIN, and SPREAD EVENLY.

On the other hand, I never use it as a gasket replacement, and only in places were the gasket or OEM manufacturer calls for it. I don't enjoy cleaning off excessive any RTV from anything, and I don't use the stuff to "glue" my engines together, unlike some I've seen. WAIT - one recent exception - the KZ's cam end plugs, when they get old and stiff. I have used it there as well.

Your oil pan / filter housing issue sounds like you are trying to use a 73-80 KZ1000 oil pan with a 81 and up oil filter cover. I have both styles of pan here and the 81 and up uses a smaller diameter at the mating surface. That won't work....

Kray-Z -- yeah I took my time cleaning the surfaces, and when I put down the sealant I use a dabbing motion to make sure it is pushed into the metal and well-connected in an unbroken line. The sealant was somewhat thin, but it wasn't like paper-thin., more like a lightweight cardboard. The manual also suggested tapping the case halves together with a rubber mallet, which I did everywhere I could find a good surface to hit. So yeah, maybe I did ok. I knew the surfaces were a close fit and I didn't want tons of the stuff squishing out. As it is, I only have a bead of about 1/16 to 1/18 diameter that squished out after I torqued the bolts. Does that sound about right?

That sounds about right for the oil pan. I know there weren't any drastic changes to the engines after the 1981 models, so I was guessing the pan I have is from an earlier engine, which means somebody somewhere was really upset about having the wrong pan on their more collectable bike. Lucky for me I do have a second engine for parts lying here so I don't have to find anything new. The one thing that bugs me is that I had already used the brush-on gasket sealer and mounted the pan before realizing there was a problem, so now my new gasket has a coating on it and I'm not sure how that will affect the seal when I get the new pan ready.

Oh, Nessism, you mentioned the color differences... My case is painted cast-iron gray, so the black doesn't really stand out, but a dark gray would be invisible.

Shdwdrgn wrote: Kray-Z -- yeah I took my time cleaning the surfaces, and when I put down the sealant I use a dabbing motion to make sure it is pushed into the metal and well-connected in an unbroken line. The sealant was somewhat thin, but it wasn't like paper-thin., more like a lightweight cardboard. The manual also suggested tapping the case halves together with a rubber mallet, which I did everywhere I could find a good surface to hit. So yeah, maybe I did ok. I knew the surfaces were a close fit and I didn't want tons of the stuff squishing out. As it is, I only have a bead of about 1/16 to 1/18 diameter that squished out after I torqued the bolts. Does that sound about right?

That sounds about right for the oil pan. I know there weren't any drastic changes to the engines after the 1981 models, so I was guessing the pan I have is from an earlier engine, which means somebody somewhere was really upset about having the wrong pan on their more collectable bike. Lucky for me I do have a second engine for parts lying here so I don't have to find anything new. The one thing that bugs me is that I had already used the brush-on gasket sealer and mounted the pan before realizing there was a problem, so now my new gasket has a coating on it and I'm not sure how that will affect the seal when I get the new pan ready.

Oh, Nessism, you mentioned the color differences... My case is painted cast-iron gray, so the black doesn't really stand out, but a dark gray would be invisible.

Your cases should seal fine, IMO. I put down so little RTV that the squished out bead is only about 0.020". More important with RTV, I think - no oil on the surfaces! They have to be squeaky clean or the stuff doesn't adhere well. Not knowing what coating you put on the pan gasket, I'll say you will probably be o.k. in re-using it as long as the coating is even in thickness (as it should be after torqueing the bolts) and undamaged from removing it. Of course the safe bet would be to get a new gasket and start over, but if you want to take the risk, try it - just be careful and watch for any leaks.

Hey, how is that for coincidence!

My current project (of my own) is an '81 KZ1000M CSR I'm re-building to sell. I also have painted the engine cast iron grey, as I like the look over an aluminum finish. I've done two engines in this grey, and most people say it looks great, and, so I thought, unique!

I prefer gloss black engines for sport / standard and semi gloss black for high performance / racing bikes, I also removed the CSR's OEM chrome covers and saved them for another project.

You should post pics when it is back together!

I have a build thread going over here ... If I'd had all Summer free to work on it, I might have gotten it going this year, but there's always something coming up. Seems like the only time I make any real progress is when I take a day off of work. Anyway, I had originally planned on painting the engine and pipes flat-black to contrast with the glass black frame, but the more I thought about it, the more I realized that flat black would be just impossible to maintain. I'm going to be using a yellow-orange color for the tank and fenders, so I needed something that contrasted with the black, didn't wash out the orange, and most importantly was readily available in both engine and header temperatures. The cast-iron fit the bill, plus it's dark enough that I think the bike will still have a shadowy look (note my nick ), but it's light enough that it should add better visibility on the street over an all-black paint job. From my tests hanging parts of the engine on the frame, I think I'm really going to like the final look.

I'm still debating if I should crack the case halves back apart again. Cleanup was good as all of the oil was removed before painting, and on a recommendation I used some 220 sandpaper to lightly buff the gasket areas so that the RTV would adhere better. Regarding the oil pan... hey, it's an oil pan, it's supposed to be accessible while the engine is on the frame! If it doesn't seal, I'm just out a bit of oil.