1981 kz 1000 ltd; no spark, bad igniter?

so i'm a real newbie. both to the motorcycle world and to the mechanical world. i'll tear my house to bits and don't hesitate to mess with a table saw, but am a little intimidated by engines.

nonetheless...

so i came into a 1981 kz 1000 ltd, that isn't getting any spark. (i do have a mechanical friend, who's also a rider.)

so a couple of questions:
1- we were told to try the igniter. any thoughts there?
2- if not the igniter, other possibilities?
3- how could i test to see if the old igniter is working or not?
4- i've been checking on ebay for parts, are there other good sources for used parts? i don't have much cash to sink into this baby right now, but i'd love to get her running before it gets too cold. and with that question, how do i go about knowing which parts are the same off of other bike years? like does an 82 1000 ltd have the same igniter?

any help would be great, like i say i'm real green and eager to learn from you all!

thanks,
mark

as i'm searching for igniters, assuming i need to, this one on ebay, is one year early, a 1980, but is an ic igniter but the wiring looks different. mine has 8 wires, in 2 plugs, this has 1 plug and 4 independent wires. would the igniter work if i modified the cables into the right plug?

here is the link:
eBay Link

thanks,

mark

Post edited by: steell, at: 2006/08/01 23:19

The part number for your igniter is 21119-1041, and some members have cross reference software and will be able to tell you what KZ's used that same igniter.

The 80 B4 and the 81 K1 (yours) both used the same pulsing coils (ignition pick ups that trigger the igniter), but the 80 uses a ballast resister on the coils, so you may have to add a ballast resister in order to use the 80 igniter.

Or you can make your own igniter using loudhvx's design and two HEI modules, Lou is a member here and the resident electronics guru

thanks for the help, i'll try to track him down!

mark

Howdy. No spark can mean a bunch of things.

1. do you have power otherwise?
2. if you have power, turn the key on and use a multimeter to check to see if power is getting to coils. To check, put POS/RED lead on the RED wire lug (on coil) with the red wire connected. Put NEG/BLACK lead on a frame ground. Put multimeter into VDC scale. turn on key. Do you get 12VDC? If there is no voltage when you turn the key on, you have a problem in one of the following: a. wiring/connector from fuses to ignition switch, b. ignition switch c. wiring/connector from ignition switch to righ switchgear d. kill switch or wiring OUT of right switch gear or the connector back into the main harness e. wiring from dual outlet going into your coils
3. coils might both be bad? Use multimeter to test both primary and secondary windings for shorts. Put in OHMS scale and put meter leads on the lugs where the power and igniter wire connect. Put in lowest Ohms scale. You should have about 3 Ohms resistance. Check secondary windings by putting probes into plug wire caps on the metal. Put meter in Ohms scale at about 20K Ohms. You should have about 15k Ohms impedence. If the coils check out, they are not the problem. If you read significantly different, you windings may be shorted. Check back in for steps on where to go at this point.
4. The ignitor wires will hook up mostly the same on an early ignitor as they do on yours. I am not sure if they will swap or not but think perhaps they will not. You have 8 wires. You will have a power wire going into the ignitor through the bigger connector. It will be yellow/red, pink or red. Open the big connector and turn the key on and see if you can find power. In that big connector, you will also have a green (goes to 2/3 coil) and black (goes to 1/4 coil). There will also be power OUT wires going to the coils. These are either pink, red or yellow/red and you already tested these. I don't think your bike will use a ballast resistor so they will go direct to your coils. The other wires you noted will be the wires from your pickup coils... a black, green and the power wire (red, pink or yellow/red). The power wire gets power to the pickup coils. Make sure both of the major connectors is secure and the connctors are clean. I use electrical contact cleaner and dielectic grease inside the connectors to ensure a good connection. You can check power at both connections but not the signals going from your pickup coils to the ignition coils.
5. If you have power where it is supposed to be, you need to check your pickup coils and ignitor. If you get this far, let me know and I will post the steps. While they are easy to do with a multimeter, they are details as there are lots of tests with the meter.
6. There is also a dim possibility that your ignition wires are not seated well in the coils if you have the type wires that come out. I would check the wire seat, replace the caps and plugs and check again, as well.

Bottom line is, what is it doing? I dogged a problem on mine last year and replaced the battery and starter solenoid, only to find it was a bad switch in the clutch, so what is it doing?

On my 81 KZ1000M CSR I thought I had the same problem, actually I had a very weak spark. Some smart guy on this forum told me to change to brand new plugs before replacing any other electrical components. I did and the damn thing fired right up. Try the plugs, they're less expensive than everything else, and you'll probably need them later anyway.

To paraphrase the responses

(1) Install new plugs
Use a Multimeter to measure resistance (ohms) for the next steps.

(2) Check resistance between the two spark plug wires on each coil, 15k-22k ohms is ok.
(3) Check resistance between the two little wires on each coil, 2-5 ohms is ok.

(4) Set meter on DC Volts and measure between each of the two small wires on each coil and negative terminal on the battery with key on, should be near 12 volts on one of them on each coil.

If all that is fine, then check the ground wire between the igniter and ground.

After that you are into the ignitor checks and I don't have a manual for that one, so ask WiredGeorge


Explanation for the specs:

The reason for the 2-5 ohms is that not all meters are the same, and if the coil is shorted it will have less than 2 ohms, and if open then considerably more than 5 ohms.
If the coil has between 2 and 5 ohms resistance then it will work.

Same deal with the 15k to 22k, maybe not according to specs, but if it falls within that range it will work.

Don't get hung up on exact numbers

Post edited by: steell, at: 2006/08/02 18:44

That ebay auction ignitor will most likely work. It is Kawasaki's first ignitor for KZ's. I believe it's function is the same as the second generation ignitors, but it looks different, and may not be as robust. As Steell pointed out, the '80 used a ballast resistor. That tells me Kawasaki was worried about the ignitor failing from too much current. I would avoid the '80 unless you are sure you need one and you are desperate to get the bike going.

By '82, Kawasaki started using their third generation ignitors which had electronic advance on some models. They look very different and are much bigger.

The problem is ebay auctions can get out of hand. I wouldn't pay more than $30 for one, but I've seen them go as high as $100.

You really need to determine the problem before just buying parts. The 4 Cylinder KZ's essentially have two ignition systems. Even the circuitry in the ignitors are somewhat independent. Because of this, a good way to troubleshoot is by swapping circuits.

As Steell said, ohming out parts is hit and miss, especially on ignitors. Ignitors can use transistors from different manufacturers which will have different results in ohm-checks. Two perfectly good ignitors can have totally different results on ohm checks.

I never check resistance on ignitors because I find it a waste of time, and rarely bother with anything but the most basic check on coil primaries.

Are you getting no spark on all 4 cylinders?

Post edited by: loudhvx, at: 2006/08/02 20:11

hey miz i have the stock ignitor off my 85 1100,send me a pic of the plug end of yours maybe i can help you.

have you checked the simple things like the key switch or off/on switch?

have you checked the 3 saftey switches??(clutch, neutral, side stand)

do you gat a ac signal from the 2 crank pickup coils??

are all the wires properly hooked up?

do you have power at the igniter box??

is the igniter box grounded?

is the igniter hooked to the coils?

do you have power at the coils?

just a start, but the box dosent have a standard test you check all the other componets and derive if the box is good or not

thanks for all the help guys, i'm honestly a little overwhelmed. hopefully this weekend i'll have some time to get into it and run through some of those tests. i need to get the battery reconnected and all the electrical connections put back together before i can do any of that, i assume.

but in answer to a couple of questions:
- we didn't get spark on either side on two of the plugs
- new plugs as of a year ago, but will still test.

thanks again, i'll try to test this stuff out and get back on here!

thanks guys, this is fun already!
mark