Possibly The Final Oil Thread Of All Time

The man has some cred.

Interesting....I change my oil vintage bike once per year, but I seldom have 3,000 miles on them.  I change the filter with the oil.  Two winters ago I had my Z1 engine apart and could still see the original honing on the cylinder walls at 36,000 miles.  I've had the bike since about 26,000 miles.  

It’s just a relief to get information from a guy that knows a thing or two about engines. 

I worked as a mechanic in a service station in the early 1970's.  The rule then was change oil and filter every 3000 miles.  As oil technology improved over the years I stuck with that 3000 miles in my cars and trucks, once a year for motorcycles.  So for once  I had the right idea.  Who knew?  

Scotty

Interesting, thanks for sharing!

Interesting point of view... Use the cheapest oil available, but change it often. 

Maybe okay on a non turbo engine, but turbos need synthetic due to heat in the turbo.

Another fun fact...
I worked for Nissan, in their engineering department, for 21 years, and I remember when the US distributor wanted to start selling "Nissan Engine Oil."  Nissan, Japan, insisted on use of a special additive in the oil, which had to be imported from Japan.  This added a lot of cost to the oil.  As time went on, this decision was questioned, and Japan backpedaled, and allowed oil to be sold under the Nissan name, without this additive.  Apparently, this Nissan dude in the video doesn't know, or agree, with the need for this special additive...

I think it was before the internet could carry things way too far, 60 Minutes broadcast a show on automobile oil/oil changes. They used two NY city cabs because those were the most abused cars imaginable. The taxis were Crown Vics with the 4.6 V8 engines.
In the study they drove each taxi 100,000 miles. One taxi was given synthetic oil, the other regular oil and they each went something like 6,000 miles between oil changes.
As the taxi cabs each reached 100,000 miles of in town NYC abuse, the engines were pulled and taken apart for analysis.
The study concluded that the engines only showed signs of normal wear and tear despite the rough duty of a NY city cab. And there were no discernible differences between the regular oil and the synthetic oil.
Im going off of memory so some "facts" I just stated may not be.
Anyways, sometimes oil theories are just plain nuts.

blipco wrote:

I think it was before the internet could carry things way too far, 60 Minutes broadcast a show on automobile oil/oil changes. They used two NY city cabs because those were the most abused cars imaginable. The taxis were Crown Vics with the 4.6 V8 engines.
In the study they drove each taxi 100,000 miles. One taxi was given synthetic oil, the other regular oil and they each went something like 6,000 miles between oil changes.
As the taxi cabs each reached 100,000 miles of in town NYC abuse, the engines were pulled and taken apart for analysis.
The study concluded that the engines only showed signs of normal wear and tear despite the rough duty of a NY city cab. And there were no discernible differences between the regular oil and the synthetic oil.
Im going off of memory so some "facts" I just stated may not be.
Anyways, sometimes oil theories are just plain nuts.

Actually, it was Consumers Report, and they worked with a fleet of taxi cabs, not just two.  I looked for a copy of the test, but the links I could find online, are dead now.  

in 1996 Consumer Reports tested 20 conventional oils and Mobil 1, in New York Taxis. They all are the sameThe taxis were tested with identical engines, rebuilt and installed for this test.

75 taxis, 22 months, 4 1/2 million combined miles

Then the engines were removed, and the con rod bearing weighed, and the camshaft lobe surfaces measured, and the lifters measured for wear.

Among the 20 most popular oils, there were no differences in the wear on the engine parts.

So... it's been proven that so long as you use an oil that has been marked with the industry standard starburst symbol, it doesn't matter what name brand you use. None of them changed the amount of wear on the tested engines.

I looked for the links as well and came up with nothing. What I saw was broadcast on 'over the air' TV. Was the CR story aired or on paper?
 

Here’s something.
archive.seattletimes.com/archive/?date=19960629&slug=2336807

OK..., where's the popcorn emoji?

The following is what we've learned & come to believe over some decades of curiosity & reading hard copy articles & studies, beginning pre-intewweb, such as Kevin Cameron's excellent series on motor oil during the heyday of Cycle World, and various later publications found on oil manufacturers' and enthusiasts websites.  Your beliefs will likely vary.

The vid doesn't address at all the environment of motorcycle crankcases that share oil with a constant-mesh transmission, only that of the relatively benign working environment of a car motor.  As far as it goes, it's an interesting vid.  Much has been written about the differences car motor vs motorcycle oil operating environment, and is beyond the scope of what we're about to write.

As mentioned, motorcycle trannys shear oil molecules in ways that car motors don't.  The shearing action of the tranny gears directly & negatively affects viscosity over the life of oil in a shared-crank/tranny environment in a relatively short time.  There is a case to be made that synthetic oils fare better than dino oils when subjected to the shearing action in a shared crankcase/tranny environment.

Air cooled motors subject oil to higher temps than liquid-cooled motors.  Heat accelerates oil degradation. Air-cooled motors should have oil appropriate for their unique needs.

The vid only briefly touches on oil age, as in "exposure to air".  What that means is, oil oxidizes when exposed to atmosphere.  That's a deciding factor in changing oil due to time vs. mileage (or operating hours).

Oil must achieve a temp above the boiling point of water (~212 deg. F, or ~100 deg. C.) for some minimum time to help evaporate blow-by contaminates (mostly H₂O) collected during cold starts & warmup running.  One of the most damaging contaminates is the sulphur dioxide (SO₂) that is a byproduct of combustion.  Another byproduct is water vapor.  Combined, SO₂ plus water vapor creates a weak sulfuric acid solution that ends up in the oil.  Evaporating the water mitigates the damage that can be caused by allowing the dilute acid to remain in the crankcase.  Frequent oil changes drains remaining contaminants.

There has been some ancedotal evidence that synthetic oils can 'weep' past gaskets that were oil tight with mineral oils. We'll leave it at that.

Even purported dino oils' additive packages are likely at least in part synthetic.

JASAO MA-rated oil is strongly suggested for wet clutches. "Energy-conserving" oils are not.

Further reading:
motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oil.html

'Nuff said.  There's more, but consider this our most basic contribution to ongoing the popcorn feast.

Not to leave well enough alone, there's also the subject of oil filters:  A whole 'nuther can of worms.**

Somewhat dated, but covers most of our stuff, which is dated anyway:
motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/FilterStudy.html
and
motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/FilterXRef.html

Done for now.  Gotta go to the store & pick up a case of popcorn.

** Zymurgy's Law of Evolving Systems Dynamics: "If one opens a can of worms, the only way to re-can them is to use a larger can."

Good Ridin'
slmjim & Z1BEBE


 

I agree with all slmjim. I’ve taken great interest in oil threads and have gone down that rabbit hole but I’ll admit my interest is waning having 'read it all'.
I now attribute the same interest in oil threads as I do in "Flat Earth Theory". I will give them a peek now and again just to see where they’re taking it. The Flat Earthers, tho, have gone largely silent. There was that guy that built his own rocket ship but sadly died because the rocket’s engine burned out his landing parachute. DOH! He wanted proof with his own eyes that the Earth was flat. The rocket only got to 1800 feet though. He should have taken a hot air balloon ride, IMO.
Anyways, I’ll miss the Flat Earthers when they’re gone. The oil threads, however, will never go away.