Thoughts on the Z ev

So electric motorcycles exist, why, nobody knows, so nobody really cares, even when they make crazy torque, like torque, so much torque but that's all there is, torque, and they don't sell well as compared to other electric vehicles, I'm sure they sell more electric roller skates than motorcycles, and only start ups (and Harley's livewire) are making them. And they aren't really great, I know a guy who sold his SV650 to get a electric motorcycles that made like 200nm of torque, and 2 weeks later he sold it and paid more than what his old sv650 was worth to buy it back, his complaint - he fell asleep on highways on the electric bike

Now as I said earlier only start ups (and Harley) is making electric motorcycles, there was nothing from the big players until kawasaki did this last year

www.kawasaki.co.uk/en/news/Kawasaki_reve...fCQlZUFEKWFlcDF1cWgk




So they're making an electric motorcycle that's manual, and it's the first ev from the big 4, I really want to see how that goes, but I only have one issue, I really don't think they should use the "Z" naming, because that was only for 4 strokes, and I think they should keep the Z to 4 strokes because it all gets included in the lineage of the Zs, I really wish they used a different name, imagine if Harley launched an electric bike and called it the Sportster EV,,or a Triumph Bonneville EV or a Royal Enfield Bullet EV, or a Honda CB-EV, those would be really weird

(Yk what nevermind, Harley Davidson is going nuts and would definitely name an electric bike the Sportster EV)

Wouldn't want one, ever. No character or soul. Washing machine on wheels.

Obviously, the likes of Kawasaki would do a better job than Harley or Zero of making an electric bike. However, electric bikes are not the same thing as normal bikes. At least with a washing machine you can repurpose the motor. I strongly suspect that this won't be possible with one of these electric bikes. All the value and R&D is in the motor and the battery. Therefore, in theory, if you really want an electric bike you could get hold of the motor and battery, an Arduino or whatever, and make your own to equal whatever Kawasaki made. People crash bikes all the time, so there will be parts. Plus the Chinese will copy the tech, so you could get fakes. However, in reality it won't work like that. No manufacturer would make money without making sure that's not practically possible. The battery and/or motor will be sealed and inoperable without proprietary equipment and software. So what you end up with is a bike with a claimed 150 mile (-ish) range, which does 100 miles in the real world before needing a charge, feels like a dead lump of machinery when you're riding it, probably needs its own charging infrastructure and long waits while it charges up when you're away from home (hang around in the rain or cold), has a diminishing battery life expectancy which is constantly diminishing its value, is probably dependent upon a subscription affecting functionality, etc. How long do washing machines last? 5? 10 years? On top of that, EVs in their current form seem like prototypes. Battery density, weight, longevity will probably improve greatly over time, in which case you're then stuck with a dinosaur of a machine which cost you a fortune and at most gets you to work and back for a few years, which you'll then struggle to sell. 

Discounting the fact I dislike electric technology for private motorised transport (just don't think it's the right solution) I'm guessing these Kawasaki prototypes will be slow, city-oriented moped substitutes. Battery capacity of 3kwh compared with Livewire's 15kwh, and the motor won't be 5 times more efficient. I can see how/why they gave it a smaller battery - those things weigh a ton and are large. Mopeds are useless except for delivery riders. A pushbike will get you some exercise and will be more fun, and less regulated (get away with more). For a pizza delivery business, a fleet comprising electric bicycles would offer the same or better performance at lower cost. For riders who like to enjoy torque and speed, any sports bike made in the past 20 years will give them much more for a fraction of what the price might be. 

Conclusion: they're introducing the idea to us through the insulting medium of a slick presentation and synthwave music (originally from the days of Testarossa and Countach) for dressed up electric bicycles, and that's why the price, range and performance stats aren't available.

I have no desire to ever own an electric motorcycle. And that’s without considering the monotony of riding on a highway on one.
Electric cars, now that I can’t wait to own. I’m tired of wrenching on them. But that’s years off due to the ongoing development for the right battery design, range, cost, charging time and the charging infrastructure.
Oh, and the nukes to power all those chargers. Small Modular Reactors are the answer there.
Yeah, but I’m hearing there won’t be enough uranium left in the world to power them. So now what? Wait, nuclear fusion is right around the corner.

I'm gonna be the odd man out here, but I'm quite excited by electric motorcycles. I have lots of reservations about them as well, and to be totally honest I don't think the technology to make them truly viable is there yet. But ultimately I'd like to see continued development and experimentation to make them great. Time will tell.

But in regards to the OP's viewpoint that calling the EV Kawi a "Z" is inappropriate, I guess I have some thoughts. There's a great quote from author Neil Gaiman that goes "The real problem with stories - if you keep them going long enough, they always end in death." And so I like to think of many things in those terms, as a story. If we look at the Z series as a story, does it keep going with the electric era, or does it die? The "H2" moniker didn't die with two-strokes, but now lives on in the ridiculous turbo-charged not-two-stroke ZH2. Many manufacturers are pledging to go carbon neutral, to cease production of internal combustion engines at some point in the future. And so if no more four-strokes, let alone four-cylinder bikes (another hallmark of the Z series in my opinion), are being produced do we just accept that the legacy of the Z series is gone (a story that ends in death), or do we take what we are offered and make the most of it? I think then the real question will be, "does it suck?" If battery technology can develop to the point where a 400lb. electric motorcycle with a six-speed gear box can do 200mph with unheard of range, I think most people would be pretty happy. Yes of course, we're a long ways off of that. Like, a looooooong ways. But I think it's good that Kawasaki is actually trying. They're doing hybrids and hydrogen engines too. So clearly they're not fully invested in any one technology, but trying to make sure they don't get left behind. 

Stereordinary wrote:

I'm gonna be the odd man out here, but I'm quite excited by electric motorcycles. I have lots of reservations about them as well, and to be totally honest I don't think the technology to make them truly viable is there yet. But ultimately I'd like to see continued development and experimentation to make them great. Time will tell.

But in regards to the OP's viewpoint that calling the EV Kawi a "Z" is inappropriate, I guess I have some thoughts. There's a great quote from author Neil Gaiman that goes "The real problem with stories - if you keep them going long enough, they always end in death." And so I like to think of many things in those terms, as a story. If we look at the Z series as a story, does it keep going with the electric era, or does it die? The "H2" moniker didn't die with two-strokes, but now lives on in the ridiculous turbo-charged not-two-stroke ZH2. Many manufacturers are pledging to go carbon neutral, to cease production of internal combustion engines at some point in the future. And so if no more four-strokes, let alone four-cylinder bikes (another hallmark of the Z series in my opinion), are being produced do we just accept that the legacy of the Z series is gone (a story that ends in death), or do we take what we are offered and make the most of it? I think then the real question will be, "does it suck?" If battery technology can develop to the point where a 400lb. electric motorcycle with a six-speed gear box can do 200mph with unheard of range, I think most people would be pretty happy. Yes of course, we're a long ways off of that. Like, a looooooong ways. But I think it's good that Kawasaki is actually trying. They're doing hybrids and hydrogen engines too. So clearly they're not fully invested in any one technology, but trying to make sure they don't get left behind. 

yeah man I agree too, I'm kind of happy that kawasaki's experimenting in the tech

but about the later part, the thing is even though I really want to see what becomes out of the electric motorcycles, I don't really think they'll become a replacement for engined motorcycles that's why I have a issue with the moniker. The H2 is back with a supercharged 4 stroke, but they also seem to use "H" with the hybrids the HEV which is a ninja 400 with an additional electric motor, tbh I think hybrids might be the future because they still sound and have a engine of a motorcycle, but I think electric motorcycles will never be a replacement, and the ICE motorcycles won't be dying anytime soon in the next 50 years (I hope) so the 4 stroke Zs won't die within the next few decades because nobody's buying electric motorcycles at all, and when consumers don't buy something and lose interest companies go back to what they were originally known for no matter how much they claimed that this was going to be the future and if they don't they die
just look at Facebook with metaverse, they kept claiming and hyping it up saying this is the future of their company and probably the world, but all that did was fuck up their stock prices, causing them to go back to focusing more on what they did the best(sell ad companies your personal information and get you addicted to scrolling down 15 seconds videos for hours). 

and about the death of the Z a communist politician I don't remember the name once said "You either die a martyr or live long enough to become a dictator". I think death would make only make it a legend, but kept going on with Electric motors would make them boring 

 

Michi wrote:

Wouldn't want one, ever. No character or soul. Washing machine on wheels.

Obviously, the likes of Kawasaki would do a better job than Harley or Zero of making an electric bike. However, electric bikes are not the same thing as normal bikes. At least with a washing machine you can repurpose the motor. I strongly suspect that this won't be possible with one of these electric bikes. All the value and R&D is in the motor and the battery. Therefore, in theory, if you really want an electric bike you could get hold of the motor and battery, an Arduino or whatever, and make your own to equal whatever Kawasaki made. People crash bikes all the time, so there will be parts. Plus the Chinese will copy the tech, so you could get fakes. However, in reality it won't work like that. No manufacturer would make money without making sure that's not practically possible. The battery and/or motor will be sealed and inoperable without proprietary equipment and software. So what you end up with is a bike with a claimed 150 mile (-ish) range, which does 100 miles in the real world before needing a charge, feels like a dead lump of machinery when you're riding it, probably needs its own charging infrastructure and long waits while it charges up when you're away from home (hang around in the rain or cold), has a diminishing battery life expectancy which is constantly diminishing its value, is probably dependent upon a subscription affecting functionality, etc. How long do washing machines last? 5? 10 years? On top of that, EVs in their current form seem like prototypes. Battery density, weight, longevity will probably improve greatly over time, in which case you're then stuck with a dinosaur of a machine which cost you a fortune and at most gets you to work and back for a few years, which you'll then struggle to sell. 

Discounting the fact I dislike electric technology for private motorised transport (just don't think it's the right solution) I'm guessing these Kawasaki prototypes will be slow, city-oriented moped substitutes. Battery capacity of 3kwh compared with Livewire's 15kwh, and the motor won't be 5 times more efficient. I can see how/why they gave it a smaller battery - those things weigh a ton and are large. Mopeds are useless except for delivery riders. A pushbike will get you some exercise and will be more fun, and less regulated (get away with more). For a pizza delivery business, a fleet comprising electric bicycles would offer the same or better performance at lower cost. For riders who like to enjoy torque and speed, any sports bike made in the past 20 years will give them much more for a fraction of what the price might be. 

Conclusion: they're introducing the idea to us through the insulting medium of a slick presentation and synthwave music (originally from the days of Testarossa and Countach) for dressed up electric bicycles, and that's why the price, range and performance stats aren't available.

uhh about the parts being available after crashes I think they won't, now that I realise crashing these would be really ugly because of the lithium, Richard Hammond of Top gear crashed an electric hypercar in an episode of the Grand Tour and it was ugly they said the car kept lighting up on fire randomly after the crash for months because of the lithium, and I don't think you'd be able to repurpose that lithium.

Maybe you could burn the scrap batteries to power the charging network 

Wookie58 wrote:

Maybe you could burn the scrap batteries to power the charging network 

Theyd burn themselves out in case of a crash 

We could use the poisonous fluoride gas to power cars maybe 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Wouldn't want one, ever. No character or soul. Washing machine on wheels.
I'm unckle Sam, I'll tell you what you like and don't like, a rebel without a cause.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>How long do washing machines last? 5 or 10 years?
My 72 Maytag is still purring and washing clothes, they don't make em like they used to.

I think EM's (electric motorcycles) are fine in some applications, like commuting to work.  I would still enjoy the two wheel thrill with wind in my face.  But range is too limited to be a versatile rider.  Solid state battery technology will help, but I would only be interested when I see around 500 miles of range before recharge.

73z1 wrote:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Wouldn't want one, ever. No character or soul. Washing machine on wheels.
I'm unckle Sam, I'll tell you what you like and don't like, a rebel without a cause.

Wait what, I don't get it.

Stereordinary, I think I understand your "ends in death" theory. But maybe that’s the way it should play out.

Think about movie actors. We remember them as young and rugged or pretty then they disappear for a while. Suddenly they reappear in a new movie in the series, only they’re old and broken playing the part of a younger man… and we’re not supposed to notice? It’s sad. Sean Connery comes to mind in James Bond 'Never say never again'.
Or Harrison Ford and Karen Allen in that last 'Raiders of the lost ark' movie. 
Im not saying these actors should die but there should be a law that states when an actor ages beyond what we first remember them by, they can no longer make movies. At least in those types of roles.

And don’t even get me started on rock stars.

So maybe motorcycles are the same way. The Z line is still chugging on. In fact I own one of the modern ones, a 2017 z900. It’s a fantastic bike which outperforms the original 900 in every measurable aspect save one, the historical aspect. The Z1 achieved a greatness that few motorcycles ever can.

The Japanese call it "sugomi", 'an aura of greatness felt by the viewer'… My z900 is supposed to look like a large predator, a leopard about to pounce (I think). And if I’m looking at it after drinking a couple of whiskeys, I just might see it but normally to me it just looks like a bug. But what a bug it is.
In my opinion the new Z's are really not "Z"s".

Back to electric motorcycles… If they had a manual gearbox, that may be a game changer but they won’t. The electric motor gives full torque from zero rpm so there’s no need for one. The gearbox would only add friction to the driveline, add weight and hurt the range.
I think Kawasaki understands this with their hybrid bike but holy moly what a complicated machine.