TOPIC:

I did some black oxide finishing back in the 80's, and it isn't the same finish that Kawasaki called "Black Chrome". Also, Kaw didn't use Black Chrome on the early GPz's.
Not sure which bikes had it, but my 81 GPz550 didn't and my 84 Turbo750 did.
I can't tell from my 82 GPz750 because it is too far from being nice


just curious, where is Burgettstown, PA ?
I'm in Seven Valleys PA

Seven Valleys is a great place! There is an equipment company in Seven Valleys, Mcgraw, or something similiar, that I have picked tractors up from in the past. I used to work for a New Holland dealership about 9 or 10 years ago and routinely had to make trips out to New Holland, PA and Lancaster. I love the whole area around Carlisle, Gettysburg, and Lancaster county. It's relatively flat, (except for the mountains ) and you have the Carlisle farigrounds within spitting distance. I hope you have been to the fairgrounds on show days.

Burgettstown is about 30 minutes east of Pittsburgh, PA, and 5 miles from the WV border. It's a small town, so if you haven't heard of it, I won't take offense. I usually just put "Pittsburgh, PA" as my location, but I noticed there were a few others here from Pittsburgh, PA, so I got a little more specific.


I am having a very hard time with the notion of "black chrome." I have dealt with lots and lots of finishes and platings, and I have never heard of any type of black chrome. It must be a gimmick from kawasaki.

One other thing. it was mentioned that the grab-bar was black chrome. I have my grab bar stripped down, and found no evidence of any type of plating process. Plating is not something that just goes away. In areas where pieces are bolted down, the original finish remains almost completely intact, as was mine. I noted nothing special about the black on my grab bar. it was neither black oxide, or any type of chrome plating. If you ask me, it was alkyd enamel. I can't be 100% sure of this, because it really wasn't an issue when removing it. Had it been an exotic finish, I would have noted it. This is gonna open up a whole
new chapter into my research. I have incredible chest pains from thinking of it already. Black chrome as everyone describes it goes completely against my umpteen years of experience in restorations and refinishing.



I'd deffinitely like to know which other parts on the 1982 GPz750 were "black chrome" so I can check it out tonight. Otherwise, I don't think I am gonna be able to sleep.

respectfully disagreeing,

Ok, I'll eat some crow...

I found black chrome.
Black hexavalent chromium...

The reason it is hard to find someone who reproduces this finish is the word "hexavalent."
It would be nice to find a source for this type of plating, but first, I really need to determine which surfaces were infact plated in "black chrome." Thanks Erin Brockovich, you have successfully hindered the restoration of my GPz. [rant]I swear, between do-gooders out to save the world, and drug dealers out to cook up their own meth, my bike will never get finished. [/rant]
I am still going to have trouble sleeping tonight.


please pass the crow,

John68 wrote:

Ok, I'll eat some crow...
please pass the crow,

Maybe you should eat some black crowmium.

Just for info, the first year GPZs 1981 did not use the black chrome, they just had flat black pipes that were easily scratched, then in 1982 the GPZ series started with black chrome. It didn't hold up too good. I had a brand new 1982 GPZ1100, rode it to Florida, then up the coast to NJ. By then the black chome was basically flat black even after cleaning. Many hours of polishing brought it back 75%. Cycle Worlds long term test of the 1982 GPZ1100 mentioned this as well as the rapid wear of the new J engines.
bob_z1 wrote:

I did some black oxide finishing back in the 80's, and it isn't the same finish that Kawasaki called "Black Chrome". Also, Kaw didn't use Black Chrome on the early GPz's.
Not sure which bikes had it, but my 81 GPz550 didn't and my 84 Turbo750 did.
I can't tell from my 82 GPz750 because it is too far from being nice


just curious, where is Burgettstown, PA ?
I'm in Seven Valleys PA

RonKZ650 wrote:

then in 1982 the GPZ series started with black chrome. It didn't hold up too good.

I guess I should do a search of trivalent chromium then... Maybe the Japanese were keen to the processing dangers long before Julia Roberts enlighted a whole town to their poisoning source.

trying to get answers with plating is like pulling teeth. Here's an example...

me: hello good sir, can you tell me what the plating solution electrical requirements are for your black trivalent chromium?
bigshotplatersupplyco: Bugger off, you are wasting bandwidth in this pointless line of questioning, now bow before me, for I am the great and powerful Wizard of Oz. If you were any kind of real human being, you would already know the answer to that question! Take your own life, for you are a waste of oxygen to us.


...or something like that. Caswell makes life easier in the plating department, but asking questions on products they don't carry is frowned upon. Furthermore, If you request to them to produce a new product, they say, "...but look at our product line, blah blah blah, we got all kinds of stuff. Are we not good enough for you? We carry everything and you are just being troublesome."

I won't knock Caswell, they do offer 110% more than any other plating supply company. Also, to buy black trivalent chromium supplies you need to buy large quantities, as some other companies have minimum order requirements. Caswell caters to the small guy. good for them... Now, must... seek... plating...




Good day,

Did you try asking in the plating section of the forums at Caswell? I don't know if it would do any good, but I figure it's worth a shot

Another possibilty is the Paint/coatings engineering Forum at www.eng-tips.com/

Post edited by: steell, at: 2005/10/27 08:00

steell,

You must be the google-meister! Are you into plating or powdercoating, or is it more for the challenge of reasearching?

I will probably post to Caswell, and I will post in their services/wanted forum. I am sure there is someone out there doing this type of plating. I am more frustrated by not finding evidence of it on the bike. The bike was hardly pristine, or completely stock when I got it, but I'd expect to look at something and say, "Foresooth! What manner of finishing is this?"
I never did see stock pipes though, so I'll have to pick those up later today.

John-

I'd like to pick the bodyshop portion of your brain a bit.
One of the side covers on my 82 Honda FT500 is broken and I don't know what to use for cementing it back together.

It's a creamy white plastic with maybe a hint of grey and yellow on the back side. Desity is such that it sinks slowly in water. I could't find any marks identifying the material. Finish appears to be solvent bonded but I wouldn't swear to it.

I'm willing to experiment and hope you can offer a short list of what I should try.

Thanks.

-Duck

The best thing to do would be to try welding it and see what happens. It is likely you have a thermoplastic. I have only encountered a very small amount of plastics that will sink and not be weldable. The problem is determining which type of plastic to weld with. It would suggest by it's color that it is a PC ABS plastic, which, when new was white. The gray could be overspray of the basecoat color. Assuming that it is ABS, I would suggest that you try heating up a piece of metal and pressing it into the seam along the crack, using no filler rods. if the plastic melts readily, and it holds together when cooled, I'd say you are gonna be able to weld it for sure.

If you can't make the two pieces melt together, then glueing is abotu yoru only option. again, assuming that the plastic is white, or cream colored, I'd say it's a PUR or polyurethane. PUR is most commonly white/yellow cream colored. Then again, here's a list of the possibilities. (I'm probably gonna get kicked off the forum for wasting bandwidth on this list)

ABA Poly(Acrylonitrile Butadiene Acrylate)
ABS Poly(Acrylonitrile Butadiene Styrene)
ACM Poly(Acrylic Acid Ester Rubber)
ACS Acrylonitrile-Chlorinated Polyethylene-Styrene Terpolymer
ACS American Chemical Society
AES Poly(Acrylonitrile Ethylene Styrene) or Poly(Acrylonitrile Ethylene Propylene Styrene)
AMMA Poly(Acrylonitrile Methyl Methacrylate)
AN Acrylonitrile
AO Antioxidant
APET Amorphous Polyethylene Terephthlate
API American Petroleum Institute
ARP Poly(Arylterephthalate) Copolyester
AS Antistatic
ASA Poly(Acrylic Styrene Acrylonitrile)
ASTM American Society for Testing and Materials
BDMA Benzyl Dimethyl Amine (Epoxy Cure Accelerator)
BGE Butyl Glycidyl Ether
BIIR Bromobutyl Rubber
BMC Bulk Molding Compound
BMI Bismaleimide
BOPP Biaxially Oriented Polypropylene (Film)
BR Polybutadiene Rubber
CA Cellulose Acetate
CAB Cellulose Acetate Butyrate
CAP Cellulose Acetate Propionate
CF Cresol Formaldehyde
CFR Code of Federal Regulations (21 CFR has provisions dealing with food contact of polymers)
CGE Cresol Glycidyl Ether
CHDM Cyclohexanedimethanol
CIIR Chlorobutyl Rubber
CM Chlorinated Polyethylene Rubber
CM Compression Molded
CMC Carboxymethyl Cellulose
CN Cellulose Nitrate
CO Epichlorohydrin Rubber (Homopolymer)
COF Coefficient of Friction
CP Cellulose Propionate
CPE Chlorinated Polyethylene
CPVC Chlorinated Polyvinyl Chloride
CR Polychloroprene Rubber
CS Casein
CSA Canadian Standards Associates
CSM Chlorosulfonated Polyethylene Rubber
CTE Coefficient of Thermal Expansion
CTFE Chlorortrifluoroethylene
CTI Comparative Tracking Index
CVD Chemical Vapor Deposition
DAM Dry As Molded (often applied to nylon)
DAP Diallyl Phthalate
DDS Diaminodiphenyl Sulfone (Epoxy Cure Agent)
DGEBA Diglycidyl Ether of Bisphenol A
DIN Deutches Institut für Normung
DTUL Deflection Temperature Under Load
EAA Ethylene/Acrylic Acid Copolymer
EBAC Poly(Ethylene Butyl Acrylate)
EC Ethyl Cellulose
ECN Epoxy Cresol Novolac
ECO Epichlorohydrin Rubber (Ethylene Oxide Copolymer)
ECTFE Poly(Ethylene Chlorotrifluoroethylene)
EEA Poly(Ethylene-Ethyl Acrylate)
EEW Epoxy Equivalent Weight (Also called WPE)
EMAAA Ethylene Acid Terpolymer
EMAC Poly(Ethylene Methyl Acrylate)
EMCM Ethylene Methyl Acrylate Cyclohexene Methyl Acrylate
EMI Electromagnetic Interference
EP Epoxy; Epoxide
EPA Environmental Protection Agency (US Government)
EPDM Ethylene Propylene Terpolymer Rubber
EPM Ethylene Propylene Copolymer
EPN Epoxy Phenol Novolac
EPS Expanded Polystyrene
ESCR Environmental Stress Cracking Resistance
ETFE Poly(Ethylene Tetrafluoroethylene)
ETPU Engineering Thermoplastic Polyurethane
EVA Ethylene Vinyl Acetate Copolymer
EVAC Ethylene-Vinyl Acetate Copolymer
EVAL Poly(Ethylene-Vinyl Alcohol)
EVOH Poly(Ethylene Vinyl Alcohol)
FDA Food and Drug Administration (US Government)
FEP Fluorinated Ethylene Propylene
FF Furan Formaldehyde
FMQ Fluorosilicone Rubber
FPM Fluorocarbon Rubber
FPVC Flexible Polyvinyl Chloride
FR Flame Retardant
FVMQ Fluorosilicone Rubber
FZ Fluorinated Polyphosphazene Rubber
GFR Glass Fiber Reinforced
GP General Purpose
GPO Propylene Oxide Rubber
GPPS General Purpose Polystyrene
HAI High Amp Arc Ignition
HALS Hindered Amine Light Stabilizer
HDPE High Density Polyethylene
HDT Heat Deflection Temperature or Heat Distortion Temperature
HFP Hexafluoropropylene
HIPS High Impact Polystyrene
HNBR Hydrogenated Nitrile Rubber (Acrylonitrile-Butadiene Rubber)
HRE Rockwell E Hardness Number
HRM Rockwell M Hardness Number
HRR Rockwell R Hardness Number
HVAR High Voltage Arc Resistance to Ignition
HVTR High Voltage Tracking Rate
HWI Hot Wire Ignition
IBS Interactive Blowing System
IIR Butyl Rubber
IM Injection Molded
IMR Internal Mold Release
ISO International Standards Organization
LCP Liquid Crystal Polymer
LDPE Low Density Polyethylene
LLDPE Linear Low Density Polyethylene
LMDPE Linear Medium Density Polyethylene
MD Metal Deactivator
MDPE Medium Density Polyethylene
MEKP Methyl Ethyl Ketone Peroxide (Thermoset Curing Agent)
MF Melamine-Formaldehyde
MFD Microfloppy Diskettes
MFI Melt Flow Index
MVTR Moisture Vapor Transmission Rate
MWD Molecular Weight Distribution
NASA National Aeronautics and Space Administration (US)
NB No Break (Applied to Impact Test Results)
NBR Nitrile Rubber (Acrylonitrile-Butadiene Rubber)
NHFR Non-Halogen Flame Retardant
NHT High Temperature Nylon
NSF National Sanitation Foundation (nonregulatory agency)
OB Optical Brightener
ODP Ozone Depletion Potential
OEM Original Equipment Manufacturer
OPP Oriented Polypropylene (Film)
OPS Oriented Polystyrene (Film)
OSHA Occupation Safety and Health Administration (US Government)
PA Polyacrylate
PA Polyamide (Nylon)
PAEK Polyarylether
PAEK Polyaryletherketone
PAI Polyamide-Imide
PAMS Poly(Alpha Methylstyrene)
PAN Polyacrylonitrile
PARA Polyarylamide (polyaramide)
PAS Polyarylsulfone
PASA Polyamide, Semi-Aromatic (Nylon)
PASU Polyarylsulfone
PB Polybutadiene
PB Polybutene-1
PBGA Plastic Ball Grid Array
PBI Polybenzimidazole
PBT Polybutylene Terephthalate
PC Polycarbonate
PCB Printed Circuit Board
PCP Post-Consumer Plastic
PCR Post-Consumer Resin
PCT Polycyclohexylenedimethylene Terephthalate
PCTFE Polychlorortrifluoroethylene
PCTG Glycol-Modified PCT
PCU Polycarbonate Urethane
PDAP Poly(Diallyl Phthalate)
PDSM polydimethylsiloxane (Silicone)
PE Polyethylene
PEBA Polyether Block Amide
PEEK Polyetheretherketone
PEF Process Engineered Fuel
PEG Polyethylene Glycol
PEI Polyetherimide
PEK Polyetherketone
PEKEKK Polyetherketoneetherketoneketone
PEKK Polyetherketoneketone
PEN Polyethylene Naphthalate
PEO Poly(Ethylene Oxide)
PEOX Poly(Ethylene Oxide)
PES Polyethersulfone
PESU Polyethersulfone
PET Polyethylene Terephthalate
PETG PET Modified with CHDM
PEX Cross-linked Polyethylene
PF Phenol Formaldehyde (Phenolic)
PFA Perfluoroalkoxy
PFPE Polyperfluoropolyether
PI Polyimide
PIB Polyisobutylene
PIR Polyisocyanurate Foam
PISU Polyimidesulfone
PMMA Polymethylmethacrylate
PMP Polymethylpentene
PNR Polynorborane Rubber
PO Polyolefin
POB Poly(p-Oxybenzoate)
POM Polyoxymethylene (Acetal)
POP Point of Purchase (Marketing Displays)
PP Polypropylene
PPA Polyphthalamide
PPE Polyphenylene Ether
PPF Phenol-Furfural
PPG Polypropylene Glycol
PPO Polyphenylene Oxide
PPOX Polypropylene Oxide
PPS Polyphenylene Sulfide
PPSU Polyphenylsulfone
PRF Plastics Recovery Facility
PS Polystyrene
PSU Polysulfone
PTFE Polytetrafluoroethylene
PTMG Polytetramethylene Glycol
PTT Polytrimethylene Terephthalate
PU Polyurethene
PUR Polyurethene
PVAC Poly(Vinyl Acetate)
PVAL Poly(Vinyl Alcohol)
PVB Poly(Vinyl Butyral)
PVC Polyvinyl Chloride
PVCA Poly(Vinyl Chloride-Acetate)
PVDC Polyvinylidene Chloride
PVDF Polyvinylidene Fluoride
PVFM Poly(Vinyl Formal)
PVK Polvinylcarbazole
PVOH Polyvinyl Alcohol
PVP Polyvinylpyrrolidone
PZ Polyphosphazene Rubber
RH Relative Humidity
RIM Reaction Injection Molding
RPVC Rigid Polyvinyl Chloride
RRIM Reinforced Reaction Injection Molding
RTI Relative Thermal Index (UL test)
RTPU Rigid Thermoplastic Polyurethane
RTV Room Temperature Vulcanizing (Silicone)
SAN Poly(Styrene Acrylonitrile)
SB Styrene-Butadiene
SBC Styrene-Butadiene Copolymer
SBS Poly(Styrene Butadiene Styrene)
SEBS Poly(Styrene-Ethylene-Butadiene-Styrene) Elastomer
SI Silicone
SI System International (a subset of metric units)
SIS Poly(Styrene-Isoprene-Styrene) Elastomer
SMA Poly(Styrene Maleic Anhydride)
SMC Sheet Molding Compound
SMMA Styrene Methyl Methacrylate Copolymer
SMS Styrene-a-Methylstyrene
SPS Syndiotactic Polystyrene
SPU Segmented Polyurethane
TAIC Triallyl Isocyanurate
TEEE Ether Ester Block Copolymer (Thermoplastic Elastomer)
TEEE Thermoplastic Elastomer Ether Ester Block Copolymer
TEO Olefinic Thermoplastic Elastomer
TES Thermoplastic Styrenic Elastomer
TFE Polytetrafluoroethylene
TM Transfer Molded
TP Thermoplastic
TPE Thermoplastic Elastomer
TPI Thermoplastic Polyimide
TPO Thermoplastic Polyolefin (often applied to elastomers)
TPU Thermoplastic Polyurethene (often applied to elastomers)
TPUR Thermoplastic Polyurethene (often applied to elastomers)
TPV Thermoplastic Vulcanizate
TS Thermoset
TYS Tensile Yield Strength
UF Urea Formaldehyde
UHMW Ultra High Molecular Weight (often applied to polyethylene)
UL Underwriters Laboratory
ULDPE Ultra Low Density Polyethylene
UP Unsaturated Polyester (Thermoset)
USDA United States Department of Agriculture
UTS Ultimate Tensile Strength
UV Ultraviolet
VCE Poly(Vinyl Chloride-Ethylene)
VCEMA Poly(Vinyl Chloride-Ethylene-Methyl Acrylate)
VCMA Poly(Vinyl Chloride-Methyl Acrylate)
VCVAC Poly(Vinyl Chloride-Vinyl Acrylate)
VCVDC Poly(Vinyl Chloride-Vinylidene Chloride)
VHMW Very High Molecular Weight (often applied to polyethylene)
WPE Weight per Epoxide (also called EEW)
XLPE Cross-linked Polyethylene

I'd assume PUR though. in that case, you need a PUR glue. Some of those storebought epoxy resins are just trash for things like this. The good glues will run you between $30-60 per tube. The applicator gun will go from $60-150 depending ont eh brand of glue. 3M is the most expensive, with a $150 gun adn $60 glues. Among the cheapest are SEM and dura-mix. I'd stick with something middle of the road. dura-mix isn't bad. SEM is good for some things, bad for others. If you are not sure where to buy glues like these, email me, I can get them for you. Like I said, they are not cheap.

If all else fails you can recast the entire part, but that will cost you between $150-300 for a single casting, at a custom plastics manufacturer.

Good luck,

John:

How was the used stock exhaust system? Did you pick it up and what shape was it in?

I went to pick it up and it was mislabeled. I just about bit the guy's head off, out of frustration. Some things are too good ot be true. I wanna say it was exhaust from a KZ inline 4, not sure which. It really looked like GargantuChet's KZ 650 SR exhaust, with a crossed pipe design in the front. deffinitely not GPz exhaust. I did find some black chrome on my bike this morning. I never really gave it muhc thought, but the gascap is plated in it. I assumed at first glance that they took a chrome gascap from another model of bike, and just painted it black, to match the whole GPz blacked-out theme. I am looking into PPS for their trivalent black chromium, or TriOnyx brand system. if they'll sell it in small quantities, chances are you will be talking to the only known black chrome plating source for motorcycle exhaust. The bike shop put me on a locator for the GPz exhaust and he said he'd physically check stock on that pipe. He said, chances are that they did have a GPz set of pipes, but they got mismarked, or didn't have markings at all. I thought it would be pretty obvious and easy to find, until I saw his stockroom ceiling. It is nothing but hanging pipes, which are all tagged, but hard to pick one from the other. some are used and painted black, and lots of them are for newer bikes. He called the GPz a dinosaur, to give you an idea of what kind of salvage yard he is.

If I do get ahold of those pipes, I will deffinitely be posting pictures.