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frame bracing 06 Jan 2016 18:56 #705852

  • PLUMMEN
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CruisingRam wrote:

PLUMMEN wrote: Welding puts stresses on the metal from the heat of the welding,and as it cools it tries to pull in different directions.
Back when I did foundry work I talked to the plant engineer about coming up with a really stout jig to tie a frame together with then shove it into the oven where they heat treated castings .
The plan was to heat it to a pre determined temp for a certain amount of time then cool it down slowly to "destress "
the frame.
Its the same reason they use frame jigs when building a frame to help control distortion from the welding and cooling of the materials. :)
The excessive heat of the welding also makes the material more brittle,same reason why you should never weld straight up and down the side of a car/truck frame,you should put a step or atleast an angle where the 2 pieces of frame are butted back together.


I agree- I guess it depends on how much metal you are putting on the frame. Small gussets shouldn't be heat sinking and distorting the frame. Shouldn't be that much metal going on it. Thoughts? BTW- 'cause I could- I did pre-heat and stress relief my frame in the "lucifer oven" we had at the time. I put the frame on the frame jig before welding- couldn't take the jig to where I was welding at the time- welded it, brought it back, and there was absolutely no frame distortion at all. Not tons of metal going on to it either- or tons of heat. I used a MIG machine.

I would have to find my notes from back in the day on frame thickness- one thing I do remember- it is absolutely NOT consistent thickness throughout the frame. There were 3 or 4 different thicknesses depending on where on frame.

Differant areas of the frame are under differant stresses,no need to make everything the same thickness if its not needed,just adds extra weight in unneeded areas.
Still recovering,some days are better than others.

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frame bracing 06 Jan 2016 18:59 #705853

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jcw wrote: A follow up on my experience with frame bracing...

I ended up running my frame (yamaha xs750) through solidworks and came up with this. Applied torsion forces through the swingarm and forces to simulate braking and compression forces through the head stock and ran simulations to determine stresses and displacement through the frame.



Here's the parts test fitted


Here's most of them tig'd.


This thread has been extremely helpful to me starting out. Then it all snowballed with the FEA. Solidworks also helped with coping patterns particularly of some of the more complex joints. Took a long time to learn but it was helpful.

Thanks again for the great thread.

Looks pretty stout to me! ;)
Still recovering,some days are better than others.

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frame bracing 06 Jan 2016 19:22 #705854

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Thats definately an easy way to do it,I usually figure the contour I need to fit the 2 together with by butting the pipes at what ever point/angle theyre going to be put together then tracing around the contour of the tubing with a sharpy.
Once I figure how far it needs to overlap the other piece I transfer the contour back to that point.
Straight pieces between 2 pieces of tubing are fairly easy .
Once you figure out where the center of cross tube is and mark it around the full diameter of the tube you mark you upper and lower points on the verticals.
Then measure between the 2 upright pieces to get the length of inside of the countor you need for your cross piece,measuring off the center allows you compensate for differant angles in verticle pieces. :)
The only tools I use for notching tubing is a 4" grinder with a cut off wheel and a flapper wheel for fine tuning,I also use a die grinder with metal carbide for areas you cant get at with the 4" grinder.
Still recovering,some days are better than others.

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frame bracing 07 Jan 2016 03:35 #705865

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there are some really cool tube coping calculator's online for free that you can use to print a paper template cut it out and wrap and mark the tube.
www.metalgeek.com/static/cope.pcgi

this one also has some other helpful calculators.
www.blocklayer.com/Pipe-Notching.aspx

leon
skiatook,oklahoma 1980 z1r,1978 kz 1000 z1r x 3,
1976 kz 900 x 3
i make what i can,and save the rest!

billybiltit.blogspot.com/

www.kzrider.com/forum/5-chassis/325862-triple-tree-custom-work

kzrider.com/forum/5-chassis/294594-frame-bracing?limitstart=0
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frame bracing 07 Jan 2016 13:48 #705914

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531blackbanshee wrote: there are some really cool tube coping calculator's online for free that you can use to print a paper template cut it out and wrap and mark the tube.
www.metalgeek.com/static/cope.pcgi

this one also has some other helpful calculators.
www.blocklayer.com/Pipe-Notching.aspx

leon


I've used similar programs before when building bicycle frames. Rough cut using the template and then file to actual size using a half round file. Works great.

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frame bracing 08 Jan 2016 02:26 #705939

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531blackbanshee wrote: there are some really cool tube coping calculator's online for free that you can use to print a paper template cut it out and wrap and mark the tube.
www.metalgeek.com/static/cope.pcgi

this one also has some other helpful calculators.
www.blocklayer.com/Pipe-Notching.aspx

leon

A lot of steam/pipe fitters Ive worked around overthe years carry patterns around with them for coping pipe. :)
Still recovering,some days are better than others.

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frame bracing 08 Jul 2020 14:54 #830119

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Man, so many lost images! I picked up a 650 frame that was braced very similar to what I have seen here. I have it up for sale and the rest of it is stock, but I have the itch now to brace another frame and make a track bike. Looking forward to hopefully snagging that PDF and continuing this project
1981 KZ750 Chopper, 1975 KZ400 , 1984 GPZ750 track build , Res 1977 kz1000a ,1977 kz1000a ...ect.

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frame bracing 10 Jul 2020 09:07 #830273

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skiatook,oklahoma 1980 z1r,1978 kz 1000 z1r x 3,
1976 kz 900 x 3
i make what i can,and save the rest!

billybiltit.blogspot.com/

www.kzrider.com/forum/5-chassis/325862-triple-tree-custom-work

kzrider.com/forum/5-chassis/294594-frame-bracing?limitstart=0

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frame bracing 10 Jul 2020 09:12 #830274

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Unfortunately it gives me a 403 Error as well as saying I do not have permission even with being logged in.

***actually all of the files say that for me. Is it possibly even with an older account I dont have permission to download?
1981 KZ750 Chopper, 1975 KZ400 , 1984 GPZ750 track build , Res 1977 kz1000a ,1977 kz1000a ...ect.

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frame bracing 10 Jul 2020 09:27 #830277

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well dammit.sorry man i haven't been able to "re-find "it .

leon
skiatook,oklahoma 1980 z1r,1978 kz 1000 z1r x 3,
1976 kz 900 x 3
i make what i can,and save the rest!

billybiltit.blogspot.com/

www.kzrider.com/forum/5-chassis/325862-triple-tree-custom-work

kzrider.com/forum/5-chassis/294594-frame-bracing?limitstart=0
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frame bracing 10 Jul 2020 13:45 #830302

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I think I have the pdf saved. I’m away from my computer for a few days but I will check next week
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frame bracing 11 Jul 2020 06:48 #830345

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I am having the same problem. I cannot access any of the articles.
1982 KZ1000 LTD parts donor
1981 KZ1000 LTD awaiting resurrection
2000 ZRX1100 not ridden enough

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