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TOPIC: gpz550 ignition switch

gpz550 ignition switch 13 Feb 2020 14:54 #819214

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Your battery and starter are (stong) good. If you look closer to your second Video you can see a blow by smoke coming out of the bottom
of the #4 intake boot (mis-firing) @ 0.18 sec.
Have you check your ignition Timing?
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gpz550 ignition switch 13 Feb 2020 15:02 #819215

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As Scirocco said, the cranking speed and vigor seem really good. Keep trickle charging the battery to keep it topped up.

If it doesn't start from the amount of cranking in the videos, then there is definitely something else wrong. It could just be no fuel. You should be on prime. The heinous sound is just backlash in the primary chain due to irregular firing. It sounds almost like it is only running on two cylinders... and not good at all on those two.

Like Scirocco said, I would be looking at electrical issues first since you did so much electrical work.

Take out all four plugs and look for spark. Also check timing while the plugs are out with a timing light. That will show if the timing is at the wrong time, even if the bike is not running and just cranking. Don't crank for more than a few seconds, and let it sit to cool down for several minutes after each try.

When checking for spark make sure all four plugs are on the engine so there is an electrical path for every spark to the engine otherwise you will damage the igniter or the coils. With all four plugs out it will be a lot less stressful on the starter and battery.
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Last edit: by loudhvx.

gpz550 ignition switch 13 Feb 2020 15:17 #819220

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I'll start with spark, Is it fine to use the painted engine part for a path? gpz engine paint seems pretty thick.

Ignition timing im not very keen on, but ill do my research.

Also is there any harm in putting a drop of oil in each cyl while i have the plugs out?
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Last edit: by Caleator.

gpz550 ignition switch 13 Feb 2020 17:18 #819234

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So, took out all spark plugs re gaped them (which they re fairly new, so im not too worried about them) and check them all for spark.

they all make spark, and i put a drop of oil in each cyl to sit over night.

I'll try to start it tomorrow morning, after that i guess im checking the ignition timing.

Does ignition timing just come out of position like that? It was previously running great. But i guess there is no harm in checking it, i'll have to buy one of those strobe timing tools

Also the primary chain, making the backlash again, could it cause any major harm?
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gpz550 ignition switch 14 Feb 2020 09:31 #819294

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No luck this morning, let prime flow gas, and starter just span with nothing happening.

it is a bit cold, and the bike has been sitting for a month.

it is a bit tedious, because i dont have access to an outlet. so I have to uninstall my battery and walk back up to my apartment to charge it.

I'm glad I got my initial issue solved, but man this is just one thing after another.


I didnt realize I had electronic ignition, i assumed it was points because I have been using a z550 manual :l

how exactly do you set electronic ignition on a non running bike?

Also does the orientation of the leads on the ignition coils matter? im pretty sure I have them on correctly but curious about that.
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Last edit: by Caleator.

gpz550 ignition switch 14 Feb 2020 11:59 #819312

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One common issue is getting the the firing order 180 degrees out. This can happen when swapping wires or re-assembling the ignition advancer. The rotor can go on backward.

Make sure the right coil has a black wire and it fires cyl 1 and 4.
The left coil gets a green wire and fires cyl 2 and 3.

Then make sure the point of the rotor points toward the "Tec" logo when the engine is at TDC for 1 and 4.

Normally when the ignition is 180 out, nothing happens at all. But in some instances, the ignition can have a ghost spark that is also 180 out. This is a very weak spark , but could be enough to run a cylinder or two for second.
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Last edit: by loudhvx.

gpz550 ignition switch 14 Feb 2020 12:58 #819317

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Ill check that. is the T next to the 1•4 not TDC for those?

I did re confirm that the coils leads are in the correct spots.

I was able to get it running for a second two separate times, so I think it wants to run.

i pulled the plugs again and the valves seem to be operating fine. tried at bump starting but my driveway space isnt long enough.

hope im not wearing out my battery too much. how many crank should I pull the battery and recharge it? I've been pulling it once it goes under 12.5 volts to be safe...
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Last edit: by Caleator.

gpz550 ignition switch 14 Feb 2020 14:15 #819324

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managed to get the almost running state on clip,
Is it possible for the gas to have gone bad within a month?
It's 91, octane. at this point i might pull the carbs off anyways to replace the boots, (I have new boots ready to go)

althought the fuel in the fuel filter looks fine, and flows good.



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gpz550 ignition switch 14 Feb 2020 16:42 #819334

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So I've flooded my engine, I was going to replace the plugs and try again. but realized I should probably give time for the chambers to clear out and maybe try again tomorrow.

Should I just replace the plugs? even worth trying to clean up? luckily I have a spare set.

before


after


no luck today, maybe tomorrow will be a better day.
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Last edit: by Caleator.

gpz550 ignition switch 14 Feb 2020 19:10 #819345

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Well, definitely getting some amount of fuel.

Have you checked the spark timing with the wire colors and rotor position etc?
That still wasn't enough running to convince me the timing is spot on.

Are you giving any throttle while cranking. Sometimes you have to do that a bit.
I assume you are starting with choke, and all 4 choke flaps are intact.
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Last edit: by loudhvx.

gpz550 ignition switch 14 Feb 2020 20:27 #819351

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So using the spark plug hole as reference, when the first cyl (far left) is at the top of the stroke, the rotor (I also assume you mean the little tick above the plate that spins)


indicator will be at the T which I assume that's correct but at the same time doesn't aline with what you said.

when the indicator is pointed at the TEC logo, the intake valve is open, hard to see how far the piston is on the stroke tho.

does this seem correct?

I've been on and off attempting all day, various throttle positions. manual says to be all the way open for when it is flooded, so I'll try that tomorrow.
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Last edit: by Caleator.

gpz550 ignition switch 15 Feb 2020 09:26 #819379

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I'm seeing the same puff of mist Scirocco saw. this time In the 2nd day 2nd attempt vid. It looks like it's coming form #4 intake boot. Could the "lock up" be hydrolock? Maybe too much fuel?
1976 KZ 900 A4
1976 KZ 900 B1 LTD
1978 KZ 1000 B2 LTD
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gpz550 ignition switch 15 Feb 2020 09:31 #819380

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it's definitely way too much fuel, based on how many times I've tried to start it up without it running.

currently watching the bike with the plugs out , trying to let the sun warm it up for me lol.
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gpz550 ignition switch 15 Feb 2020 09:31 #819381

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it's definitely way too much fuel, based on how many times I've tried to start it up without it running.

I actually think the smoke came out of cyl 3.
hard to tell, don't want to put my face in it.

currently watching the bike with the plugs out , trying to let the sun warm it up for me lol.
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gpz550 ignition switch 15 Feb 2020 09:51 #819384

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www.nwsca.com/gpz550/KZ550%20Base%20Manual.pdf

There is a supplement covering your bike... Maybe this will help.
1976 KZ 900 A4
1976 KZ 900 B1 LTD
1978 KZ 1000 B2 LTD
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gpz550 ignition switch 15 Feb 2020 10:09 #819385

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From what I can see, the ignition rotor appears to be correct.

When the "F" mark lines up, the point of the rotor should be pointing toward the pickup with the blue and black wires.
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gpz550 ignition switch 15 Feb 2020 10:49 #819388

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starting to think at this point it has to deal with my new harness but at the same time it works good as far as I can see. that's the biggest variable that has changed from when it was running.

Does any wire need to be larger than 18 gauge coming off the off the main harness? All the electricals work, horn, (can't really check speedo and tach atm) lights, turn signals, and was getting spark from the plugs. small detail but one of my start attempts triggered that brake failure switch somehow, so that works too.

This morning I put fresh plugs (perfect gaps) and attempted a start with full throttle, prime, choke. still only able to get the half start.
pulled the new plug after a start attempt and it looked clean still but smelt of gas. Waited a bit and gave another try and hear a low tone bubble/burble noise, kinda like a Harley that has its idle set too low.
Gonna give it a break for a couple of days.

I have spark, I'm definitely getting gas, and I don't have a compression tester but when turning the engine by hand I feel it. also the ignition is aligned properly. Outside of the battery issue, and oil burning, last month it ran great.

If you guys have any other ideas I'll try them, but might just open up the carbs and re do the top end.
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Last edit: by Caleator.

gpz550 ignition switch 15 Feb 2020 10:55 #819391

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I would drain the carbs, pull the fuel tank off, plug the vacuum line for the petcock, clean the plugs, and try to run on starting fluid (Ether). If it won't run on that, then it's electrical or mechanical, rather than a fuel issue.

Do you have experience running a bike on starting fluid? If not look for some videos to get an idea. You usually won't need any choke with the starting fluid, and maybe a little throttle.

If the bike runs and revs up normally with starting fluid, then the electrical is probably fine, and the engine mechanicals are good enough to at least start. So you'd then be concentrating more on fuel.

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gpz550 ignition switch 15 Feb 2020 12:00 #819397

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I'll give it a shot, not too familiar with starting fluid but definitely heard of it.

what % of ether should I get? I see a variety
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gpz550 ignition switch 15 Feb 2020 12:14 #819400

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I don't think it matters much. I didn't even know there were different % amounts.

I've never tried this, but it's my favorite:

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