timing problem

I posted about this in the engine section last week, but I've got a little more information now. It's a 1981 KZ440 D3. New plugs, wires, and caps. The bike idled and revved great in early March. Now it runs rough and the timing is off. When I can get it to idle for a minute, the fixed timing mark lines up with the T mark instead of the F mark. I thought maybe the cam chain slipped a tooth when I removed the tensioner back in January. So today I removed the cylinder head cover. With the fixed mark aligned with the T mark, the camshaft sprocket arrow is positioned perfectly, as you can see in the photos. (The second photo angle is a little misleading, so I put a straight edge on the cylinder head surface to show that the arrow lines up as it should.)







So I guess the problem must be electrical? Last week, as per my FSM, I tested the ignition coil, pulsing coil, and IC igniter. Ignition coil and pulsing coil test fine, but I was getting strange numbers with the IC igniter. So I bought a used one on ebay. Popped it in. No change. Still running rough and timing is still off. So, I'm thinking maybe it's the pulsing coil? The magnet looks worn down. I don't think I'm going to find one of those -- even a used one -- for this bike anytime soon. Not really sure what to do now. I'd be grateful for any ideas you've got.

K

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Getting a full 12 volts at the coil?

Running through all the tests in the service manual, I tested the leads coming from the igniter. With the ignition turned on, testing the wires that go to the coil should give me battery voltage, but I'm only getting .01 with the multimeter switched to 25 V DC setting. I'll test the replacement igniter tomorrow.
I can get a new/used igniter and coil, but if the pickup coil is bad, what are my options? I guess I could look for a parts bike. Or switch back to points?

Test meter between one of the two coil positives and ground - battery -ve.
The coil is live all the time when ignition is on, the coil -ve turns on and off to spark the coil.

Pulser coils tend to last well, unless damaged. You can fire the ignition without cranking the motor just by sweeping past the pulser with a magnetic screwdriver.

Clean and lube the ATU mechanical advancer, you need to get this ignition timing right, and check it is advancing and retarding correctly with a strobe. This is likely your problem. There is a locating dowel that keeps the ATU in the correct position on the crank.

Thanks G.O.A, and thanks Tyrell Corp. You can probably tell that I'm over my head on this stuff. This is my first bike in 30 years. Tyrell Corp, can you explain what you mean by "battery -ve" and "coil -ve"? You might need to pretend that you're speaking to a twelve year old.
The pulsing coil doesn't look cracked or anything like that. It's just that the magnet is worn down compared to pictures I've seen of a good one. The timing advancer is clean as a whistle and operates smoothly. I took it off and saw that it fits on the crank properly.
I'm seriously considering switching back to points, if that's possible. I remember points. I liked points. Sealed electronics...seems to me that they work until they don't. I've been looking for a post on how to switch back to points, but haven't found one yet. If anyone remembers a good post about this, or if anyone has advice, I'd be grateful. Thanks.

K

battery polarty convention:

- ve negative ,ground, earth

+ve positive ,live, line

for coil feed check, go from (red?) live wire to coil terminals, the other probe to -ve battery terminal or any grounded metal part on the frame - it is negative ground.

If this is points to later electronic igniton you may just need to slot or elongate your pulser mount plate holes to get your ignition timing within adjustment. It will run (badly) if it is quite a bit out. I had this one one of mine once,

Saying that if you had it running good a month ago, this is more likely your ATU advancer seized, or a bad ignition coil. Later ignition had a different coil impedance too IIRC. Try cleaning up the terminals and maybe replace the coil crimped connections under the tank.

Someone has already elongated the pulsing coil plate holes. I repositioned the plate to see if it made a difference. I used a business card to keep the distance between the magnet and the rotor(?). Went to start it, and the battery is dead.

I trickle-charged the battery overnight and hooked it up today. With the multimeter at 20 DC V, one lead to the yellow/red wire that runs from the battery to the coil, the other lead to ground, I get 11.84 volts.
When I test resistance at the coil's primary terminals, I get 2.5 ohms. When I test the plug wires with the caps removed, I get 11.64. Within spec.
I measured voltage at the igniter's 2 and 3 pin connectors with the key On, and the readings were within spec. But when I disconnect the 2 and 3 pin connectors and test the igniter's resistance, the readings aren't right. And yet, the readings are almost identical for my original igniter and for the replacement igniter I bought on ebay. Maybe I've got two bad igniters?
And I guess switching to a points system won't be as easy as I thought. I found all the parts I need except the "governor -- breaker". Part # 21148-1002. Nothing in parts stores or on ebay.
Headache now. Beer run.

Cam timing won't affect apparent ignition timing, neither will coil voltage, or the igniter. When you use your strobe, where is the rotor lobe in relation to the pickup center when the light flashes? Does the timing strobe have an advance-dial? If so, you should tape it to 0 degrees so you don't get false readings.

Going to points would be a big downgrade, and since you are getting spark, I don't think the timing issue is the electronic ignition. Have you removed and inspected the advancer unit and made sure the timing roll pin is still in the end of the crank?

The only thing that really affects ignition timing is the rotor and pickup position relative to the crank. Normally the only thing that alters that relative position is the advancer unit.

Thanks for your reply, loudhvx. You asked, "When you use your strobe, where is the rotor lobe in relation to the pickup center when the light flashes?" I turned her over, but man, I honestly can't tell the position of the spinning lobe when the light is flashing. I don't have an advance on my timing light, so that's not an issue.
The timing advancer is relatively clean, and I've oiled and greased it as per my FSM. It moves freely. The pin is still in the crank, and it fits into the slot in the advancer. Also, I installed the lobe so that it points toward the "tec" mark as per FSM. It can be installed in two different positions.



When I manually turn the crank so that the lobe is closest to the magnet on the pickup, the fixed timing mark lines up with the "T" mark. If I turn the crank so that the fixed mark lines up with the "F" mark, you can see where the lobe is, in relation to the magnet. Close, but not quite there.





The pickup plate is slotted, but not enough that I could re-position it more than a millimeter or two. I've tried moving it as much as I can, but no change. I'm using the business card method of spacing the lobe and magnet. If anyone has a more specific measurement, please let me know.

Could the lobe have moved on the rotor? They look like two separate pieces. Let's say some idiot (me) forgot to use the business card method just once, and when he started the bike, the lobe hit the magnet and turned slightly on the shaft of the rotor. That would certainly throw off the timing. I don't remember doing that, but it sounds like something I'd do. And it would explain why the bike ran great and then didn't. I've tried to move the lobe, but it doesn't budge.