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Smoking starter and bike won't start. 15 Nov 2011 23:12 #488691

  • Juan1
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Background:
I purchased an '82 GPZ750 that hadn't been started in 2+ years. To show me that the bike would still run, the P.O. dropped in fresh gas and a new battery. Sure enough the bike fired right up, and I've started the bike a couple of times since then, trickle charging the new battery before I do.

Problem:
A week ago I pulled out the choke and tried to start the bike (which was a bad move since I hadn't used the choke before when the bike started immediately). Rather than firing right up like it had in the past, I could hear the engine turning over, but the bike wouldn't start. Soon after I first depressed the start button, black smoke could be seen and smelled coming the starter cover. Also, the sound from the starter was as though the freshly charged battery was dying. Later attempts to start the GPZ resulted in a slowly turning over starter, black smoke, and the bike not starting.

Question:
Will I hurt anything if I connect my car battery to the MC battery to see if the MC battery is part of the problem?
Should I start looking at having a shop rebuild the starter to deal with the smoke issue, or should I just grab a KZ750 starter from ebay?

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Smoking starter and bike won't start. 16 Nov 2011 00:09 #488698

  • 650ed
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Juan1 wrote: Background:
I purchased an '82 GPZ750 that hadn't been started in 2+ years. To show me that the bike would still run, the P.O. dropped in fresh gas and a new battery. Sure enough the bike fired right up, and I've started the bike a couple of times since then, trickle charging the new battery before I do.

Problem:
A week ago I pulled out the choke and tried to start the bike (which was a bad move since I hadn't used the choke before when the bike started immediately). Rather than firing right up like it had in the past, I could hear the engine turning over, but the bike wouldn't start. Soon after I first depressed the start button, black smoke could be seen and smelled coming the starter cover. Also, the sound from the starter was as though the freshly charged battery was dying. Later attempts to start the GPZ resulted in a slowly turning over starter, black smoke, and the bike not starting.

Question:
Will I hurt anything if I connect my car battery to the MC battery to see if the MC battery is part of the problem? Should I start looking at having a shop rebuild the starter to deal with the smoke issue, or should I just grab a KZ750 starter from ebay?


YES it will hurt something! In fact, it will wreck your bike's electrical system and end up costing you way more money than necessary to repair. Smoke coming from your electrical system is a pretty strong indication that there is a serious problem. Fix that before trying to start the bike. Ed
1977 KZ650-C1 Original Owner - Stock (with additional invisible FIAMM horn)

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Smoking starter and bike won't start. 16 Nov 2011 00:22 #488701

  • TexasKZ
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Use a good volt-amp-Ohm meter to determine the at rest voltage of the battery. If it is within spec (you do have a factory shop manual, right?), then you may want to take it to a motorcycle shop that can load test it. If the battery proves to be good, then you likely have loose or corroded connectors in the system. In fact, I'd bet on it. Make sure all connections are clean and tight. Be sure all switches are clean. Install the old battery if good,or a new one of not, then begin the careful and methodical testing of the system from the battery out. You can likely fond the procedure on this site in the electrical system. Search for posts by MFolks. Here is his method for cleaning connectors and such---
Cleaning Motorcycle Electrics

Get some of the De-Oxit electrical contact cleaner and figure on spending a good day going from the front of the bike to the back. It’s a plastic safe cleaner/preservative. www.deoxit.com is their website.

On the older Kawasaki's, a majority of electrical connectors are inside the headlight housing requiring removal of the headlight, then the fun begins.

Do one set of electrical connectors at a time to avoid mixing up what connects to where. Usually disconnecting, spraying with De-Oxit and reconnecting is about all you'll need.

However, when encountering the green crud of corrosion, a brass wire brush may be needed on the pins you can reach.
Some 400-600 grit wet and dry sandpaper strips rolled into a tube should reach the male and female pins in the more difficult to clean connectors.

Smoker’s pipe cleaners, cotton swabs and wooden toothpicks work as cleaning aids.

Really small electrical connectors may require the use of a welders tip cleaning tool assortment.

Most pins in the connectors are coated with a thin plating of tin, and others may be nothing more than copper or brass.

If moisture is added, the resulting corrosion lowers the voltage/current being carried causing dim lights, slow engine cranking, slow turn signal responce and lower input voltage to the ignition coils resulting in weak spark.

The left and right handlebar switch pods will need attention too as they have circuit functions like turn, horn, run/stop, and start.

Usually a spritz or two with actuation of the switch is about all needed for these switches unless corrosion is detected and then careful disassembly is required.

The ignition switch may or may be not sealed to allow spraying the internal contacts. I urge caution if attempting to open this up as springs, and ball bearings may fly out never to be seen again!

If your bike has the older style glass tubed fuses, I suggest replacing them as vibration can cause internal failure. AGX is the type used, and most auto parts stores can get them for you.

Clean the fuse holder clips, looking for signs of overheating(discolored insulation, signs of melting).
I use metal polish on a cotton swab, followed by spraying another clean swab with the De-Oxit and then rubbing the inside of the fuse clip.

All battery cables must be clean and tight for maximum current transfer. Check the cables going from the Negative(-) battery terminal/post to the engine mounting bolt

Also the one going from the Positive(+) terminal to the starter solenoid and from there to the starter motor.

If any battery cable feels ”Crunchy” when flexed, replace it as possible corrosion is inside the insulation.

Each "Bullet Connector" will have to be sprayed to ensure good connectivity, especially the ones going to the energizing coil of the starter solenoid.

The alternator output “Bullet Connectors” are usually behind the engine sprocket cover and will need inspecting and cleaning too.

The turn signal light sockets will benefit from a spritz from the contact cleaner along with the tail light/brake light socket.

Some brake light switches can be sprayed on the actuating rod, with the spray running down inside to the electrical contacts, others may be sealed requiring replacement if the switch is intermittent in operation.

Some people put the Di-Electric Grease on cleaned terminations/connectors, I don’t, as I’ve read/heard it can cause problems when it gets hot, actually insulating the connections, so the choice is yours to use or not.

I think I've covered about all of the electrical systems on the bike.........
1982 KZ1000 LTD parts donor
1981 KZ1000 LTD awaiting resurrection
2000 ZRX1100 not ridden enough

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Smoking starter and bike won't start. 16 Nov 2011 00:34 #488704

  • MFolks
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Starter Solenoid/Motor Checkout Procedure

Some simple steps to determine what is working and what's not:

1.Fully charge and test the battery(most bike shops can load test the battery, and then use a floating ball hydrometer to check specific gravity in the charged cells).

2.Clean all battery terminals of corrosion.

3.Tighten all starting related connections(Positive RED(+) battery terminal, Negative BLACK(-)terminal) and from the terminal to the engine case. All connections must be clean and tight. If the cables feel “Crunchy” when flexed, they may have corrosion inside the insulation, requiring replacement.

4.Clean the cable from the starter solenoid to the starter motor.

5.Clean and check the "bullet connectors" going to the coil side of the starter solenoid.

6.Try again to start the bike, keep in mind some Kawasaki’s have a clutch interlock to prevent cranking the engine while it’s in gear, so the clutch lever must be squeezed.

7.If no luck, go to step #8

8.Wearing eye protection, bridge with pliers or a screwdriver the two heavy duty(large)terminals on the solenoid. If the bike cranks, your solenoid may be bad.

9. If the starter won’t turn over, one of several things has happened; The starter motor has seized due to brushes binding up, lack of lubrication in the bushings of the motor, the battery is weak , the engine has seized or it could be a combination of any of the above. A website for starter motors is:

A. www.psep.biz/store/mitsuba_starter_motors_page_2.htm

B. www.nationsautoelectric.com/Kawasaki.html

C. www.whitedogbikes.com/cat--Kawasaki-Star...-Starter-Motors.html

D. www.ricksmotorsportelectrics.com/starters.php

10.The dealer may want $$$ for a new solenoid, but take your old one along and visit the nearest riding lawn mower shop. They have solenoids for about $15 that with a little work will fit. Be aware that the new solenoid from the lawn mower shop may require a ground wire for it to work.

11. I’d recommend upgrading from the existing battery cables to at least 6 gauge welding cables.
They are available in two colors(RED and BLACK) have more flexibility due to being constructed with finer conductors, and will fit in tighter areas.

12. The welding cable is sold by the foot, so take careful measurements or bring your old cables along. Most battery shops might be able to supply the cable too, so call to find out. The battery shop should be able to crimp/swage on the end of the welding cable the terminal ends or lugs using either a dedicated crimping machine or a tool that looks like a bolt cutter that has special dies to terminate the cable.
1982 GPZ1100 B2
General Dynamics/Convair 1983-1993
GLCM BGM-109 Tomahawk, AGM-129A Advanced Cruise Missile (ACM)

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Smoking starter and bike won't start. 16 Nov 2011 00:54 #488705

  • Motor Head
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650ed wrote:

Juan1 wrote: Background:
I purchased an '82 GPZ750 that hadn't been started in 2+ years. To show me that the bike would still run, the P.O. dropped in fresh gas and a new battery. Sure enough the bike fired right up, and I've started the bike a couple of times since then, trickle charging the new battery before I do.

Problem:
A week ago I pulled out the choke and tried to start the bike (which was a bad move since I hadn't used the choke before when the bike started immediately). Rather than firing right up like it had in the past, I could hear the engine turning over, but the bike wouldn't start. Soon after I first depressed the start button, black smoke could be seen and smelled coming the starter cover. Also, the sound from the starter was as though the freshly charged battery was dying. Later attempts to start the GPZ resulted in a slowly turning over starter, black smoke, and the bike not starting.

Question:
Will I hurt anything if I connect my car battery to the MC battery to see if the MC battery is part of the problem? Should I start looking at having a shop rebuild the starter to deal with the smoke issue, or should I just grab a KZ750 starter from ebay?


YES it will hurt something! In fact, it will wreck your bike's electrical system and end up costing you way more money than necessary to repair. Smoke coming from your electrical system is a pretty strong indication that there is a serious problem. Fix that before trying to start the bike. Ed


Listen to 650ed here.
You will probably need another starter, and both new battery cables. Hopefully nothing else has Let the Magic Smoke out.
1982 KZ1000LTD K2 Vance & Hines 4-1 ACCEL COILS Added Vetter fairing & Bags. FOX Racing rear Shocks, Braced Swing-arm, Fork Brace, Progressive Fork Springs RT Gold Emulators, APE Valve Springs, 1166 Big Bore kit, RS34's, GPZ cams.
1980 KZ550LTD C1 Stock SOLD Miss it
1979 MAZDA RX7 in the works, 13B...

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- 16 Nov 2011 09:38 #488740

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Smoking starter and bike won't start. 16 Nov 2011 09:49 #488743

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martin_csr wrote: I agree that he should check into an electrical problem first. However...

Are you all sure he can't use a car battery to start the bike? Because that is exactly what I did a few years back: jumper cables from car battery to motorcycle, car engine OFF, & car keys in pocket. Bike started, ran fine, no electrical problems.

It has been my understanding that as long as you do it with the car engine off, you can use a car battery (12V), since the motorcycle will only draw as much current as it needs. i thought it was the car's alternator that fries the mc electrics.


Martin,

You are correct, using a car battery with the car's engine shut OFF won't hurt your bike or my bike (or other healthy bikes), but his bike may burst into flames unless he figures out what's burning and making the smoke. ;) Ed
1977 KZ650-C1 Original Owner - Stock (with additional invisible FIAMM horn)

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Smoking starter and bike won't start. 12 Dec 2011 15:13 #492809

  • Juan1
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Thanks for the replies. The problem was a short in the starter. It was fixed at a starter shop for free. The bike fires up great now.

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Smoking starter and bike won't start. 12 Dec 2011 17:49 #492835

  • gengomerpyle
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i think we need to see some pictures of the bike now that you have it running :)
1982 GPZ750R1 ELR
1978 Honda CB750F SuperSport
1971 Honda CB750K
1970 Honda CL100 Scrambler

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Smoking starter and bike won't start. 13 Dec 2011 20:14 #492997

  • Juan1
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She ain't much to look at now. Give me another month to replace broken turn signals, remove corrosion, repaint the engine and wheels, etc...

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Smoking starter and bike won't start. 13 Dec 2011 21:44 #493015

  • gengomerpyle
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could always do a before and after look
1982 GPZ750R1 ELR
1978 Honda CB750F SuperSport
1971 Honda CB750K
1970 Honda CL100 Scrambler

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Smoking starter and bike won't start. 25 Jul 2017 11:48 #767699

  • jenningsjesse
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Just had the same thing happen on my Spectre. I ordered a rebuild kit, since they're only $20. Just wondering if you know where the short was at in yours that the bike shop fixed? So I know what to look for when I pull mine apart.

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