#1 cylinder is eating spark plugs

More
20 Mar 2010 09:47 #354844 by Patton
Replied by Patton on topic #1 cylinder is eating spark plugs
The float valve (needle and seat) may already be sealing perfectly.
And the float itself may be perfectly buoyant and without any sticking.

As known, there's a tang (small flat extension) on the float arm that pushes the needle into its seat when the float rises, thereby stopping fuel flow through the needle into the bowl, which is supposed to happen when the fuel level is within specs. The clear tube test determines whether the level is within specs.

Where the tang is incorrectly set (bent to the wrong angle), the float is at wrong height when the tang pushes the valve closed. It might be having to float up too high, or vice versa, in order to close the valve.

In this particular case, everything may be perfect, except for the tang adjustment.

A miniscule adjustment (bending) of the tang usually results in a dramatic change in the float level, so best to proceed with tiny successive tang adjustments until arriving at the perfect level.

The internal carb circuits are designed to correctly function with the fuel inside the float bowl being at a specified level.

Good Fortune! :)

1973 Z1
KZ900 LTD

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
20 Mar 2010 12:14 #354903 by saxjonz
Replied by saxjonz on topic #1 cylinder is eating spark plugs
Hold on a second... You said the engine was rebuilt or at least that is what I and everyone else interpreted. Now the engine is untouched changes my idea on what is wrong. You said the engine spark is weak. Well, I would bother to suggest that with all the sitting that those carbs that you think are clean in reality may be trashed out. The bike leans over to number one and I would suggest you to do a few things.
First I would see if I could find another set of carbs that are known to be good and see if this works.
The points plate I would check the points to see if they are pitted/adjusted correctly. I personally hate points I would toss the whole setup in favor of dyna coils, taylor wires and a dyna plate but I don't know the condition of your bike or where your funds and ideas for the bike are at.

Now, from previous experiences with my bike that left me with busted knuckles trying to wrestle with the airbox, I have learned that some carbs cannot be cleaned out to run properly after sitting with gas in them. The ones I had I had to pry the crap out of the bowls and after about 20 cleanings within a season two that I actually paid for first time bike ran great for a day and then started running crappy just like my previous efforts and then the last time another that I paid for a tuneup by a guy who raced bikes and built them on the side for others, a local legend, I trashed them and bought another set of carbs and then disappeared all my issues.
Smoothbores, pods, electronic ignition and coils, vance pipe and I was one happy camper.

I don't know how easy it would be to replace the wires on stock coils, as I recall I just tossed mine for a little extra cash and I am still using those coils twenty years later so if you buy dyna coils I think you will be happy.

79 LTD B3
80 LTD B4 1075 kit JE Pistons .410 cam grind, Bassani, 31 keihin CR Specials...
1980 Z1R, 2002 ZRX1200, 2003 ZRX1200

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
20 Mar 2010 14:36 #354926 by sm0kinace
Replied by sm0kinace on topic #1 cylinder is eating spark plugs
bountyhunter wrote:

cobura wrote:

If someone can help out, what aftermarket coils do you recommend? Should i go with the Dyno 3ohm coils?

I am running the four Ohm OEM coil that sells at Z1 Enterprises for $36 and it runs great in my 750 twin, a lot better than the stock coil.


could you post a link to that product? if i would have seen that i would have gotten it instead of the much more expensive dyna kit.

just my thoughts on this whole thing, if the symptom is a weak spark with fouling check your ignition electricals as have been thoroughly discussed in this thread. once you have consistent good fat sparks and still have fouling then look at reasons why they are getting wet with fuel and/or oil.
an easy way to watch your sparks is to take the plugs out of the cylinder, plug them into their caps, and ground them somewhere on the chassis. take off your points cover, and with the ignition switch "ON" use an implement to either separate points that are closed to induce spark, and/or ground and release points that are open to induce spark. Try comparing sparks between plugs on the same coil, and comparing sparks between plugs on different coils.
there is also a chart around here somewhere that will tell you how to read your spark plugs, being able to do so is one of the best tools you can have, it can save you a lot of time and $$. being able to tell a difference between lean and hot, rich and cold, etc. will give you a better jumping off point in your troubleshooting.
always work through the simpler (and cheaper) potential issues before jumping into investments. make sure you KNOW what is wrong before you fix it. throwing parts at it until it works is definitely not the most efficient way of working, and can leave you scratching your head, more frustrated, and wanting to give up.

1978 KZ650
Ichyta, KS

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
20 Mar 2010 14:47 - 20 Mar 2010 14:48 #354930 by bountyhunter
Replied by bountyhunter on topic #1 cylinder is eating spark plugs
sm0kinace wrote:

bountyhunter wrote:

cobura wrote:

If someone can help out, what aftermarket coils do you recommend? Should i go with the Dyno 3ohm coils?

I am running the four Ohm OEM coil that sells at Z1 Enterprises for $36 and it runs great in my 750 twin, a lot better than the stock coil.


could you post a link to that product? if i would have seen that i would have gotten it instead of the much more expensive dyna kit.


Looks like they are temporarily out of stock.

www.z1enterprises.com/SearchResult.aspx?...ords=ignition%20coil

1979 KZ-750 Twin
Attachments:
Last edit: 20 Mar 2010 14:48 by bountyhunter.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
20 Mar 2010 14:54 #354934 by bountyhunter
Replied by bountyhunter on topic #1 cylinder is eating spark plugs
sm0kinace wrote:

bountyhunter wrote:

cobura wrote:

If someone can help out, what aftermarket coils do you recommend? Should i go with the Dyno 3ohm coils?

I am running the four Ohm OEM coil that sells at Z1 Enterprises for $36 and it runs great in my 750 twin, a lot better than the stock coil.



an easy way to watch your sparks is to take the plugs out of the cylinder, plug them into their caps, and ground them somewhere on the chassis. take off your points cover, and with the ignition switch "ON" use an implement to either separate points that are closed to induce spark, and/or ground and release points that are open to induce spark. Try comparing sparks between plugs on the same coil, and comparing sparks between plugs on different coils.

I saw a cool tool for testing sparks: it connects to the plug wire and ground and it has an adjustable spark gap (center electrode) you can keep opening to see how far the maximum spark distance is, which translates into spark voltage. Looked like fun....

1979 KZ-750 Twin

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
20 Mar 2010 15:29 #354942 by Patton
Replied by Patton on topic #1 cylinder is eating spark plugs
Click here for one example of a > Spark Tester Tool

Good Fortune! :)

1973 Z1
KZ900 LTD

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • cobura
  • Topic Author
  • Offline
  • User
  • forever 2 wheels
More
20 Mar 2010 18:43 #355012 by cobura
Replied by cobura on topic #1 cylinder is eating spark plugs
thats a good point about the carbs. I do believe that they are the source of my problems, but I can say that its not because they are dirty. I spent two weeks cleaning them! haha. I never wanna do that again. Stripped them down piece by piece. After that, had a professional go over them again and do the balancing. If they are still dirty, i probably will just throw them away, haha.

You are also right that the airbox IS THE MOST ANNOYING THING EVER MADE! Its like kawasaki designed it to piss us off. Since i have to take it off again, I might just go with pod filters like you said, but I know it can also open up a whole new can of worms.

1979 KZ650B3

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Kawickrice
  • Offline
  • User
  • After Monday & Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF
More
20 Mar 2010 19:23 #355021 by Kawickrice
Replied by Kawickrice on topic #1 cylinder is eating spark plugs
After reading this thread again saxjonz brought up a valid point. When a bike sits for any length of time on the side stand all the fuel will run to the lowest point which is the #1 carb with #2 being next. With this being said all the trash that is in the tank goes to the lowest point which is #1 since you are having problems with this particular cylinder it would be worth pulling them down again and go over this carb with a fine tooth comb. Some times it takes a few times to get them right, One of my bikes took 4 teardowns of the carbs to get them to work right and I still do not know what was the problem was but after a few times they finally worked. I have had problems with the #1 and #2 on a set of smoothbores years ago and it was a dirty tank causing it. No matter how many times you clean the carbs if trash is in the tank as soon as you open the petcock the carbs need a teardown. A fuel filter is mandatory but they will not filter out 100 percent of the trash. The small particles pass through the filter and collect in the bowl and will clog very small passeges even though its a fine as baby powder. One more thing is with a 30 year old bike sloshing a little gas in the tank will not get it cleaned enough. That can take 3 to 4 times too unless you line it with something. This is not the gospel but it has happened to me and this is what it took to ride trouble free.

73 Kawasaki Z1
07 HD CVO Ultra Classic
82 Suzuki GS 1100
74 Yamaha RD 350 (My two stroke toy)
77 Kawasaki KZ 650B-1 (My putt around bike)
80 Indian Moped (My American Iron)
1
Long Gone
75 Suzuki GT550
74 GT 380
79 RD 400 Daytona Special
72 Honda CL 175
74 Honda QA 50
Tampa FL

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
20 Mar 2010 21:35 - 20 Mar 2010 21:36 #355066 by Patton
Replied by Patton on topic #1 cylinder is eating spark plugs
[Click on image to enlarge view.]


1973 Z1
KZ900 LTD
Attachments:
Last edit: 20 Mar 2010 21:36 by Patton.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
20 Mar 2010 21:38 - 20 Mar 2010 21:40 #355068 by Patton
Replied by Patton on topic #1 cylinder is eating spark plugs
May provide a better view when clicking on the image.



1973 Z1
KZ900 LTD
Attachments:
Last edit: 20 Mar 2010 21:40 by Patton.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
20 Mar 2010 21:49 #355072 by Patton
Replied by Patton on topic #1 cylinder is eating spark plugs
cobura wrote:

...airbox IS THE MOST ANNOYING THING EVER MADE! Its like kawasaki designed it to piss us off. Since i have to take it off again, I might just go with pod filters like you said, but I know it can also open up a whole new can of worms.


New soft pliable air intake hoses are relatively inexpensive and offer substantially less resistance when removing and installing carbs.

Click here > Z1E Air Box Hoses

Good Fortune! :)

1973 Z1
KZ900 LTD

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
21 Mar 2010 07:02 #355127 by Old Man Rock
Replied by Old Man Rock on topic #1 cylinder is eating spark plugs
Spark tester tool... You already have one guys, it's called your TIMING LIGHT!!!!

Clip the pick up on a spark plug wire of choice.... Start engine.... No light strobe = no juice (conduction) through the plug to ground...

Can't get any simpler then that....;)

OMR

1976 KZ900-A4
MTC 1075cc.
Camshafts: Kawi GPZ-1100 .375 lift
Head: P&P via Larry Cavanaugh
ZX636 suspension
MIKUNI, RS-34'S...
Kerker 4-1, 1.5" comp baffle.
Dyna-S E.I.
Earls 10 row Oil Cooler
Acewell 2802 Series Speedo/Tach
Innovate LC1 Wideband 02 AFR meter

Phoenix, Az

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Powered by Kunena Forum