New Points = No Spark? 1978 KZ1000 LTD (Fixed???)

Patton wrote:

In other words, the condenser wire, signal wire and spring are supposed to be clamped together insulated from the backing plate. So as to permit the condenser wire and signal wires to ground via the spring through the points to the backing plate only while the points are closed.

And if it accidentally gets grounded by connecting to the plate or anything touching the plate, you lose the spark altogether.

OK....

All of you were right about how to wire it. BSKZ650 and twinkyrider (twinkyrider:laugh: ) you were both right about the condenser not working, the condenser positive was shunted directly to ground!

OnkelB and Patton, your advice got my bike fired up. This forum is great! Thank you for taking your time to help me out!

I am going to need a timing light, aren't I????

I tried to set the static timing Veeeery carefully with my Fluke meter, but each attempt at setting the timing without the bike running turns out to be a new shade of wrong.

I have an ongoing build thread here:

kzrider.com/index.php?option=com_kunena&...=11&id=211833#211833

Beatpoet wrote:

OK....

All of you were right about how to wire it. BSKZ650 and twinkyrider (twinkyrider:laugh: ) you were both right about the condenser not working, the condenser positive was shunted directly to ground!

Been there, done that......:laugh:

That's how we all recognized the symptom so quickly....

Well, after driving around and tuning last night...

I went out this morning to finish timing my bike. Crank crank crank crank crank - Dead!

*****No Spark*****

I re-dressed the points, re-checked the condensers, re-assembled the whole ignition plate, checked coil primary, secondary, and ground.

I cleaned and triple-checked the gaps on the plugs.

I checked the resistance of the alternator. I cleaned all connectors and re-assembled the battery lead to the ignition.

I even loosened the clutch rod case to find out if I had accidentaly pinched any alternator wires.

I didn't find any leads with 12v on them to the alternator (isn't this a field coil setup??)

I also tried to test the rectifier diodes with my diode tester, but couldn't get any reading there.


*****No Spark*****

I've lost three vehicles to electrical conditions in the last 4-5 months... What's going on here?

I just traced the ignition wires..

There is continuity from:

The battery -> the ignition switch -> the kill switch -> The coil primariy/points.

The biggest resistance being a 5 ohm drop from the kill switch to the coil primary/points.

I also studied the schematic and tested each diode in the rectifier individually, with between .56V & .66V drop in each diode ---- they tested good.

With ignition switch turned ON, is full battery voltage found at the dual connector on the red/yellow wire (under the fuel tank) which feeds the two red/yellow wires going to the coils? Wanting to assure the connectors on the red/yellow wires going to the coils are at least plugging into full battery voltage. Next, is the full battery voltage actually reaching the coil primary terminal?

With ignition switch turned OFF, AND the points closed, AND signal wire connected to the coil terminal, there should be continuity between (1) the coil primary terminal connected to the signal wire, and (2) ground. Because coil primary should be reaching ground through the closed points.

With ignition switch turned OFF, AND the points open, AND signal wire connected to the coil terminal, there should be no continuity between (1) the coil primary terminal connected to the signal wire, and (2) ground. Because coil primary should be unable to reach ground while the points are open.

With a good fully charged battery, the bike should perform just fine without the alternator, rectifier or voltage regulator (at least until the battery runs down).

Let's relax, have a drink, and take it a step at the time.

Addendum -- when testing, remember to have the Off-Run-Off kill switch in the RUN position.

Patton wrote:

With ignition switch turned ON, is full battery voltage found at the dual connector on the red/yellow wire (under the fuel tank) which feeds the two red/yellow wires going to the coils? Wanting to assure the connectors on the red/yellow wires going to the coils are at least plugging into full battery voltage.

***There is about a 1 volt drop to the yellow/stripe connectors that come from the battery to the battery side of the coil primary.

Patton wrote:

Next, is the full battery voltage actually reaching the coil primary terminal?

***Still a one volt drop

Patton wrote:

With ignition switch turned OFF, AND the points closed, AND signal wire connected to the coil terminal, there should be continuity between (1) the coil primary terminal connected to the signal wire, and (2) ground. Because coil primary should be reaching ground through the closed points.

***Coil primary only reaches ground when the points are closed...

Patton wrote:

With ignition switch turned OFF, AND the points open, AND signal wire connected to the coil terminal, there should be no continuity between (1) the coil primary terminal connected to the signal wire, and (2) ground. Because coil primary should be unable to reach ground while the points are open.

***There is about a five ohm resistance across the coil primary when the points are open. The coil primary is shunted to ground when the points are closed.

Patton wrote:

With a good fully charged battery, the bike should perform just fine without the alternator, rectifier or voltage regulator (at least until the battery runs down).

Let's relax, have a drink, and take it a step at the time.

Addendum -- when testing, remember to have the Off-Run-Off kill switch in the RUN position.

Well, I went out again and got a bright spark with a gentle swoop of the kickstart.

I plugged the headlight and the starter back in and could only get a few mild rumbles out of the bike in the couple of minutes before the headlight dimmed and the battery croaked.

Shucks, I got the battery last summer - me wiring the points wrong must have killed it.

Hopefully it will charge up and I will get spark tomorrow morning when I go out to see my bike.

I have to get to work somehow!:blink:

Seems the primary windings are getting power and the signal wiring is performing okay.

In the morning when first trying to crank it up, try using only the kick starter, with choke lever full on (up), throttle left completely closed, petcock on or on prime a few moments before cranking to allow the float bowls to fill.

When running, would check charging system by measuring voltage across battery terminals -- should be about 12 volts at idle and increasing to 14-15 volts at say 3000-4000 rpm.

Thanks for the progress reports.

Good Luck!

I had started to suspect the charging system as well... Although I have put this battery through its paces over the last couple of days.

Tonight I am going to install a ground lift switch on the headlight for low battery start situations; there is already a hole where it appears that a headlight indicator lens was located.

I appreciate all of the help! I've learned more with my hands in this bike (and in this forum) over the last few days than any one text I have read about the subject.

I woke up this morning and tried to start it... No spark at all. I can't use the kickstarter because it seems that every time I pull in the clutch lever, the kickstart gear disengages...

*****No Spark*****

I am about to try a battery from my friend's bike to see if it works like that... If it doesn't I'll try one battery cranking the starter while the other powers the ignition ! :S

Patton wrote:

Seems the primary windings are getting power and the signal wiring is performing okay.

In the morning when first trying to crank it up, try using only the kick starter, with choke lever full on (up), throttle left completely closed, petcock on or on prime a few moments before cranking to allow the float bowls to fill.

When running, would check charging system by measuring voltage across battery terminals -- should be about 12 volts at idle and increasing to 14-15 volts at say 3000-4000 rpm.

Thanks for the progress reports.

Good Luck!

BTW, the battery was on a trickle charge overnight.

The battery measures @12.6 volts unloaded and drops down to @10.3V loaded with the headlight and starter.

I managed to get the kickstart to engage for a few kicks and there is no sign of a spark there either...

And I only cranked the engine over with the starter a few revolutions - enough to see that there was no spark(as to not drain the battery.)

Is it safe to use a battery charger at low amperage to directly feed your ignition system for testing purposes? Does anyone know what the draw is for the coils?