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Running Rich.....sooo? 26 Apr 2011 22:51 #447273

  • calvin17d
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Just got done with the restoration. Put in new rings have 135 psi compression all 4 cylinders +/-(5psi). The carbs were mechanically synched, and the timing was also done statically. I put a 120 main jet in after putting on K&N pods and a V&H 4:1 exhaust. I am living at about 2800' and here is how she runs.

Idle is quite smooth and it fires right up. My plugs have been a little sooty but not wet. Im running a B7ES which is the hotter of the specified plugs. The bike does not miss at all, but there is some hesitation and a very minor bog during heavy acceleration.

My first instinct is to go with a smaller jet size and keep plugging jets in until it runs right. Just wondering if their are some preliminary steps I should take to ensure its jetting i.e. pulling the pods and run filterless to lean out a bit? How about pulling the baffle to reduce restriction? How big of a jump should I make from the 120? The jets were a 112.5 prior to the rebuild.
1976 Kz900 A4

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Running Rich.....sooo? 26 Apr 2011 23:28 #447276

  • Nebr_Rex
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Needle clip position?
You can also tape up half the filter area of your pods to see if it is jetted lean.
I would of went 105% on the mains and raised the needle 1 to start and I'm at half you alttitude.
Maybe go back to stock jets and raise the needles and compare it with what your running right now.
That would be cheaper than buying abunch of jets.
2002 ZRX1200R
81 GPz1100
79 KZ1000st daily ride
79 KZ1000mk2 prodject
78 KZ650sr
78 KZ650b
81 KZ750e
80 KZ750ltd
77 KZ400/440 cafe project
76 KZ400/440 Fuel Injected

www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=39120.0


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Running Rich.....sooo? 26 Apr 2011 23:51 #447283

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Nebr_Rex wrote: Needle clip position?
You can also tape up half the filter area of your pods to see if it is jetted lean.


I am already running very rich, wouldnt this just make things more rich by reducing the air flow further?
1976 Kz900 A4
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Running Rich.....sooo? 27 Apr 2011 00:17 #447287

  • Nebr_Rex
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calvin17d wrote:

Nebr_Rex wrote: Needle clip position?
You can also tape up half the filter area of your pods to see if it is jetted lean.


I am already running very rich, wouldnt this just make things more rich by reducing the air flow further?


Yes,just stating for reference,no harm intended.
2002 ZRX1200R
81 GPz1100
79 KZ1000st daily ride
79 KZ1000mk2 prodject
78 KZ650sr
78 KZ650b
81 KZ750e
80 KZ750ltd
77 KZ400/440 cafe project
76 KZ400/440 Fuel Injected

www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=39120.0


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Running Rich.....sooo? 27 Apr 2011 00:21 #447288

  • Patton
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If not already done, would visually observe spark (look for fat blue).
And also assure fuel level in float bowl is within specs (use clear tube test method).

Would replace spark plugs with brand new NGKB8ES and toss the too hot #7 plugs as they are often just a crutch to help compensate for something else wrong.

Good Fortune! :)
1973 Z1
KZ900 LTD

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Running Rich.....sooo? 27 Apr 2011 00:29 #447289

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Patton wrote: If not already done, would visually observe spark (look for fat blue).
And also assure fuel level in float bowl is within specs (use clear tube test method).


Regarding the fuel level in the float bowl, the spec in my book suggests 22mm +/- 1mm. Is this measurement from the bottom of the float to the mating surface of the carb or at the flange that sticks up off of the mating surface for the float bowls on the carb?

Is a rich condition a sign of too high a float level?

How can I be sure that the "fat" size of my spark is "fat" enough?
1976 Kz900 A4

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Running Rich.....sooo? 27 Apr 2011 00:29 #447290

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calvin17d wrote: ...120 main jet...K&N pods...V&H 4:1...2800'...plugs have been a little sooty but not wet...B7ES...some hesitation and a very minor bog during heavy acceleration....


For reference, courtesy of Z1E:

26mm (VM26SS) KZ900A4 & A5
Main Jet 115
Air Jet 1.0
Needle Jet O-6
Jet Needle 5DL31-3 (last number is the clip position)
Throttle valve (slide) 1.5mm cutaway
Pilot Jet 17.5
Air Screw setting 1 3/8 turns out

Good Fortune! :)
1973 Z1
KZ900 LTD

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Running Rich.....sooo? 27 Apr 2011 14:49 #447380

  • hoghaterkaw
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At 2800' elevation, 120's may be too rich for your setup. As pointed out look for the fat blue spark on all cylinders. I suggest you check the spark color indoors. Outside the spark will look more red than blue. I like to test for good spark by using a new plug with the ground strap removed. Then the spark must jump all the way from the center electrode the the thread ferrule.

Forgot to say that Patton is also correct about going back to the B8E plugs.

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Last edit: by hoghaterkaw.

Running Rich.....sooo? 27 Apr 2011 16:24 #447392

  • roy-b-boy-b
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What is your small jet size? How much voltage do you have to your coils? Roy
1979 LTD Street Fighter.1977 KZ1000

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Running Rich.....sooo? 27 Apr 2011 19:28 #447424

  • TeK9iNe
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calvin17d wrote: How can I be sure that the "fat" size of my spark is "fat" enough?


:laugh: I love this question :laugh:

If it is bright and light blue, and jumps a cm gap in the air, you're good to go ;)

My new dyna setup had a nick in the plug wire and the spark would jump over an inch to the frame with a bright blue "CRACK", thats what you want!

PS. Remove the plug and use a screw driver. You want to see that spark JUMP to the engine.
Gloves optional, the spark wont kill if you use one hand. Just tingles... :laugh:

B)
Motorcycle Shop Owner/Operator

79 Kawie Z1000 LTD
81 Kawie Z1000 CSR
83 Honda VT750C A
85 Kawie GPZ900 A2
86 Zukie GS1150 EG
93 Yamie XV1100 E
Lucky to have rolled many old bikes through my doors ;)

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Running Rich.....sooo? 27 Apr 2011 20:35 #447436

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Wow, that screw driver method worked great. Had a big "fat" blue spark that I had jumping about 3/4" to my engine. My next investigation will be the float level.

What are thoughts on raising the needle while in the carbs?
1976 Kz900 A4

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Running Rich.....sooo? 27 Apr 2011 21:45 #447444

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calvin17d wrote: ...next investigation will be the float level.
What are thoughts on raising the needle while in the carbs?


Would leave the jet needle clip in the oem middle position.

As to fuel level inside the float bowls, that is the critical factor, regardless of the measured dry float height while carbs are upside down on the work bench.

Where fuel level is within specs, the carbs couldn't care less about the dry measured float height.

Use the clear tube method and forget about measuring the float heights (unless the fuel level is so far off that it becomes helpful to adjust the float height measurement as a means to getting the fuel level in the ball park close enough to obtain the correct fuel level by using the clear tube method. See image below.

Good Fortune! :)

1973 Z1
KZ900 LTD
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