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Starter and crank bolt problems 14 Jul 2017 18:31 #766968

  • Shdwdrgn
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I was able to get set up to try and start the bike this evening, ran into a couple problems. First, around the starter. The first time the engine kicked over (gave a nice putt-putt then stopped), when I tried the starter again it just free-spun. No gear engagement at all. So I took off the cover and found the crank bolt holding the large gear had backed out about 3/8". Hmm I don't remember that being loose and I certainly never touched it, but ok... I tightened it back up with a wrench and tapped it with a hammer to snug it down. It was solid enough to crank the engine around, so I put the cover back on, topped off the oil, and tried again. Got it to slowly putt-putt for a few seconds, but the starter never disengaged. Tried a few more times but the starter never let go. Mind you, it never got any real speed, just a *very* slow few turns before dieing again, so I don't know if the starter clutch relies on higher RPM's before letting go? But in the meantime, after a few slow starts the starter motor began slipping again, which I'm guessing means that crank bolt came loose once more. Not good!

So first off, is there supposed to be some sort of keeper washer around that bolt to prevent it from coming loose? Is something else missing here? And second, since it's all in the same spot, is there anything I should look for to see why the starter motor is not disengaging, or am I right about it needing more RPM?

And the other thing I noticing was that gas was being pushed back into the air box. Quite a lot of gas, enough to make a puddle that I had to soak up. Could this be something normal when first getting everything back together again, or again is there something I should check? The tank has been disconnected for the night, but the first thing I'll check tomorrow is whether gas flows straight out of the carbs when I hook the tank back up again. Any other suggestions would be helpful.

Thanks folks... I'm *SO* close to having her running now...
1981 KZ1000-JK1
She's a beautiful mess, and I've made her all mine

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Starter and crank bolt problems 14 Jul 2017 19:20 #766969

  • loudhvx
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That much gas in the airbox could be a problem. It could be a carb is not sealing the fuel inlet properly, or even a possibly a valve timing issue.

I'm not familiar with the 1000 starter clutch workings.

Sucks to be so close, but no brass ring. :(

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Starter and crank bolt problems 14 Jul 2017 21:23 #766974

  • SWest
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There is a copper washer between the rotor and the drive gear. If it is trapped, it will lock the drive gear and the rotor. You need to check that out. The gas could be timing or valves not sealing.
Steve

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Starter and crank bolt problems 14 Jul 2017 21:26 #766975

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It certainly had a nice thoaty sound to it, can't wait to hear it actually running. :-) All right, looks like tomorrow I'll have to tear into the bottom half of that other engine. I never really using anything but some aluminum pieces from it because that one had been left outside with the bores exposed so the steel is rusted. I can at least look at how that one is put together and see if something is missing from this end of the crank. Sure wish one of the parts diagrams showed that end bolt and any hardware that should go with it.

When I got this first engine, the gear between the starter and crank had ripped out of its slot, so I got a great price for the whole bike because the guy couldn't start it up (and of course had to replace the whole bottom case). I'm beginning to think something isn't right here, and this is exactly WHY that gear had gotten ripped out in the first place. I'll get this problem solved first, then look into the carbs.
1981 KZ1000-JK1
She's a beautiful mess, and I've made her all mine

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Starter and crank bolt problems 14 Jul 2017 21:36 #766976

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Also there is a spacer between the large drive gear and the case. The gear has to spin freely, if not the spacer is too thick.
Steve

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Starter and crank bolt problems 14 Jul 2017 22:05 #766978

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Uhhh... that gear is supposed to spin, huh? Yeah that wasn't happening except after that end bolt came loose. When I tightened the bolt, the gear felt snug like it was secured to the crank. I just thought that was how it was supposed to be! All right cool, that helps a lot, so now I know what I'm looking for. I'll see if I can get the 'correct' sized parts off the other engine tomorrow. Thanks!

Oh, it occurs to me... when the engine started running under its own power, it would have been spinning that gear against the starter, and the direction of resistance would have unscrewed that bolt. Makes sense now!
1981 KZ1000-JK1
She's a beautiful mess, and I've made her all mine

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Starter and crank bolt problems 14 Jul 2017 22:10 #766980

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Erg I just realized.. what were you using to pull the parts off the crankshaft? I think I have a small gear puller, not sure I have anything that large. Then again, when that bolt came loose everything seemed to slide pretty freely in there.

Oh and one more thing... what about the bolt on the end of the crank? Is there supposed to be a lockwasher or something else under it? What is supposed to keep it from spinning loose?
1981 KZ1000-JK1
She's a beautiful mess, and I've made her all mine

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Starter and crank bolt problems 15 Jul 2017 05:32 #766986

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Pics?
Steve

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Starter and crank bolt problems 15 Jul 2017 07:07 #766989

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Shdwdrgn wrote: Erg I just realized.. what were you using to pull the parts off the crankshaft? I think I have a small gear puller, not sure I have anything that large. Then again, when that bolt came loose everything seemed to slide pretty freely in there.

Oh and one more thing... what about the bolt on the end of the crank? Is there supposed to be a lockwasher or something else under it? What is supposed to keep it from spinning loose?



If a J-motor, I believe the rotor bolt (no washer) is supposed to be torqued to 92+ ft. lbs. but you need to verify that with your Kawasaki FSM.
If the rotor is still tight on the crank with the bolt loose, you may have dodged a large bullet or artillery shell.
Steve may be correct about the rubber spacer. The FSM has specifics about that too.
1982 KZ1100-A2

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Last edit: by daveo.

Starter and crank bolt problems 15 Jul 2017 13:44 #767010

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Holy crap on a cracker... found the problem! I popped the alternator part off the crank of the 'parts' engine, saw how everything was supposed to go together, then did the same on my engine. Uh... That copper washer is supposed to go in FRONT of the gear, not behind it! The washer was completely domed out and there was galling between the gear and the alternator (is this the rotor?) piece. Also those little spring-loaded rollers, one of them had a cut spring. So I swapped parts as much as I could, but unfortunately the magnets in the parts engine are destroyed so I still had to use that piece from the new engine. Even with the galling on the one face, once everything was bolted back together the gear still spun freely in only one direction and there was no sloppy sideways movement to it, so I called it good. The galling will probably destroy the copper washer somewhere down the line but it gets me going for now.

And yes, the bike has finally been started!!! Took a couple minutes to blow off the initial smoke, and I still need to work on the idle speed and syncing the carbs, but it's definitely running.
1981 KZ1000-JK1
She's a beautiful mess, and I've made her all mine
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Starter and crank bolt problems 15 Jul 2017 14:39 #767016

  • Scirocco
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A quick view in a service manual will save you a lot of time, frustration and money.




Have you change the rubber washer?? There are three different thickness measuring.
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Starter and crank bolt problems 15 Jul 2017 15:48 #767025

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Tell that to the previous owner who put this back together wrong. I never took this apart until today, so I didn't realize there was a problem here. However, reading what it says it appears that what I feel from the gear rotation now is how it *should* be. It spun freely until I torqued down the bolt, then it had just a light drag but still spun smoothly without any wobble.
1981 KZ1000-JK1
She's a beautiful mess, and I've made her all mine

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