Need help with engine tuning procedure on KZ1000R2

PLUMMEN wrote: Have you checked valve clearances since installing head?

Yeah, I did check them after installing the head and they were within tolerance. Maybe something has changed due to the engine have been running? Or could it be that I somehow timed it a little off with regards to the Tdc mark? The readings should then be similar on all cylinders, and not one being 117?

Or could it be that I somehow timed it a little off with regards to the Tdc mark? The readings should then be similar on all cylinders, and not one being 117?
______________________________________________________________

Tommy, this cant happen and have a good running bike.

The problem will show up as bad compression numbers. The valves will be open or not closing on the compression stroke due to valve timing being wrong. Plus you can have valve to piston contact. You will also have an ill running bike, kinda what is going on with the bike now.

Sounds like you have some doubt as to the accuracy of the cam timing? You need to do leak down test. If its losing pressure, I would add a cam timing check to the list.

good luck

You have to put heavy springs in . hell the valves might be bent allready

Tommy, the readings should be within 14 psi from the highest reading cylinder to the lowest cylinder. Your highest is 117 psi and lowest 80 psi. Big problem! Also, your readings should all be in the 160 psi to 180 psi range for your engine. Others here can confirm that. Consider that you have new pistons and rings and I assume at least a hone, then it has to be your cam timing. If you installed the original cam chain, it may be your chain is stretched a little which can contribute to making a mistake when timing the cams upon assembly. So keep that in mind when checking it. Go by the base marker on the intake sprocket and pin count on the chain, even if that may look slightly off.

Well I did the compression test again with pouring a table spoon of oil in the cylinder and then wiggling the bike back and forth to evenly spread it. Wham! 185psi on cylinders #1 and #4! i also tried on cylinder #2 but kept missing the hole spilling outside, I got that up to 150psi. It's got to be something with the rings then? Is this something that can be due to needing to break in the new rings?

The lower part of the engine was assembled by the macine shop and I didn't lube the pistons in any way as I assumed the shop had done what needed to be done here. Could it be that lube or assembly grease have not been applied to the rings and they are messed up and now not creating a seal?

I am trying to get a hold of the guy in the machine shop to hear what he has to say about this...

Well anything that is metal to metal should be oiled during assembly. I just use a small paint brush and coat all parts inside and out, anywhere the wear can happen with same oil I'm running in bike before and during assembly.

I might use a different lube for cam lobes, but depends on how far I took it down and if its cleaned spotless

I tend to fill engine from top and flood top end cam pockets, buckets and shims good then put on head cover.

You are still 35 off from 185 to 150


If it were mine.....I need to know this information. Did you get a build sheet from shop. Were did the shop get numbers to do bore and ring gap. Did they log numbers. Can they produce numbers? Not out of their mouth but pre-dated information.

1. piston to cylinder wall clearance ( mine was .002 )
2. piston ring end gap ( based on manufacture number )
3. Cylinder bore straightness or Integrity ( same number at top, center and bottom )
4. Did they finish hone?

Just remember that any fluid, assembly lube or grease that you introduce to the interior or the engine needs to be compatible with the JASO or wet clutch issue. The chance of this being a problem are slim and off subject....but can be over looked.

4TheKZ1000 wrote: Well anything that is metal to metal should be oiled during assembly. I just use a small paint brush and coat all parts inside and out, anywhere the wear can happen with same oil I'm running in bike before and during assembly.

I might use a different lube for cam lobes, but depends on how far I took it down and if its cleaned spotless

I tend to fill engine from top and flood top end cam pockets, buckets and shims good then put on head cover.

You are still 35 off from 185 to 150


If it were mine.....I need to know this information. Did you get a build sheet from shop. Were did the shop get numbers to do bore and ring gap. Did they log numbers. Can they produce numbers?

1. piston to cylinder wall clearance ( mine was .002 )
2. piston ring end gap ( based on manufacture number )
3. Cylinder bore straightness or Integrity ( same number at top, center and bottom )
4. Did they finish hone?

Just remember that any fluid, assembly lube or grease that you introduce to the interior or the engine needs to be compatible with the JASO or wet clutch issue. The chance of this being a problem are slim and off subject....but can be over looked.

I did fill up the top end before firing, so everything should be good there. The guy that did the bottom end this is an old kawasaki guy who has been working on engines for his whole life i believe, so I think he should be able to read the correct numbers and lube it correctly when assembling. I need to get a hold of him and ask.

I've also been doing some reading about rebuilt engines in general, and some say that low compression is not uncommon until the rings have broken in properly. Could this be what is going on with my baby?

Yup, you really should get a write up of what was done.
What was done do the engine? New pistons for first overbore? Or bored it out to a larger displacement? Or maybe just new standard stock pistons and rings (unlikely scenario) and just a hone?

I don't think by you having put in the pistons dry is much of a problem. I have read many people here do so in order to break the engine in faster after honing. One thing comes to mind. When installing the pistons into the cylinder block, did you offset the ring gaps on each piston so the first, second and oil ring are offset from each other as per recommendation of the service manual?

KZJOE900 wrote: Yup, you really should get a write up of what was done. I don't think by you having put in the pistons dry is much of a problem. I have read many people here do so in order to break the engine in faster after honing. One thing comes to mind. When installing the pistons into the cylinder block, did you offset the ring gaps on each piston so the first, second and oil ring are offset from each other as per recommendation of the service manual?

Thing is that I didn't install the pistons myself, as this was done by the shop. i will need to get this also verified by the guy who did this at the shop. As I told earlier, this is an old guy who has done loads of engine rebuild, and I really doubt that he is not awar of how to do this... but you never know?

peter1958 wrote: You will have to take the head off and put stronger springs in. Sounds like you have the cams in a tooth off

I'll let you know one thing Pete, you are the man Your guess was spot on. I could swear that I did it correct the first time :blush:

The errors of a novice:


I hope there is no chance that I have bent any valves from this? Do any of you think so?

I got the cams mounted in again, this time correctly:



I can hear from the sound now when turning the engine with a 17mm wrench that the air is compressed and then decompressed, it actually sounds much better now. Before it was irregular with regards to the hissing sound, when the air escaped the valves. I think I might have got it :woohoo:

I will check the valve clearances again tomorrow and put the cover back on and give it a crank. i hope this was the cause of the problem. A little strange that the oil in the cylinder test seemed to give such a dramatic change in compression. I will know more tomrrow and let you guys know.

Thanks for all the input. I really appreciate your effort in helping me out

Norway signing out for tonight...

I

Change those valve springs. While your at it or bend valves later

I am looking at changing the valve springs while I am at it, like Peter1958 suggests. Which one should i go for? The GPZ1100 cams that I am running has valve lift at .375 I think. Is this too aggressive for the stock springs on the KZ1000R2? An option for me would be to wait with changing the valve springs until the season is over...

I am thinking of going with KPMI OEM replacement valve springs that are rated for upto .425, also using the titanium retainers from KPMI. This should be sufficient, or should I go for the ones rated .475? ? I probably don't want to go too agressive on the springs as that would be overkill for theses cams?

Is it safe to run the stock springs or do i need to change them like Pete says?