Cheap mc oil?

I hate to admit it, but I'm kind of a cheapskate. Ok let's be nice and call me "thrifty". I think the primary difference is I don't cut corners if it's going to end up costing me more in the long run.

Case in point...

I noticed this oil on the shelf at the local big box store. Accel 10w-40 and the bottle says "SF quality for model years 1988 and earlier". It also says "meeting prior API performance standards SE".

Is this marketing hype? Is this crappy oil? Or is it oil without all the modern additives (as in safe for a wet clutch)?

It's $2.67 a quart compared to the $6+ per quart for standard dinosaur (non-synthetic) motorcycle oil.

That's about a $12 difference every oil change. That's certainly not going to put a kid through college, but it's enough to make me wonder.

Of course if it's crappy oil and leads to premature valve/ring/engine wear it ain't such a good deal. If it has all those modern additives and this is just marketing hype then it's no good for my wet clutch.

Are there any independent ratings of motor oil? I hate relying on just brand name and marketing. What does an API SF or SE rating mean anyway?

Just use Rotella 15W-40 non-syc

I find it at $11.99 and buy a few at a time.

That's $3.00 a qt.

Doing a little self-education...

API ratings:
All start with S and then the second letter represents the minimum standard the oil met. Higher letters mean more recent standards for things like fuel efficiency, wear protection, environmental concerns, etc. A lot of MC manufactures seem to recommend oil with no higher than a SG rating.

This seems like a really bad rating system to me. It bundles all kinds of oil characteristics into one standard. I'd like high wear protection, but none of the friction modifiers typically used for increasing fuel economy.

The JASO (Japanese Auto Standards Org) system includes a friction test that measures whether or not an oil is suitable for wet clutches. It's JASO-MA.

That's exactly the sort of info I was looking for. It's an independent standard that measures whether or not an oil is suitable for wet clutch applications.

Then I found this discussion ( www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads...wflat&Number=2647970 ) There's apparently a difference between an oil manufacturer claiming their oil meets JASO-MA standards (as Rotella does) and it actually being certified.

In the case of Rotella, it sounds like lots of people use it wet clutch applications and it works fine even though it isn't technically certified.

At least now I know a little more about those ratings on the oil bottle and what I should be looking for.

The JASO (Japanese Auto Standards Org) system includes a friction test that measures whether or not an oil is suitable for wet clutches. It's JASO-MA.
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Well Rotella 15W-40 is JASO-MA ....... say's right on the container ???????????

www.epc.shell.com/Docs/GPCDOC_Local_TDS_...8en-US%29_TDS_v1.pdf

From Wikipedia

Motorcycle usage

Though marketed as an engine oil for diesel trucks, Rotella oil has found popularity with motorcyclists as well. The lack of "friction modifiers" in Rotella means they do not interfere with wet clutch operations. (This is called a "shared sump" design, which is unlike automobiles which maintain separate oil reservoirs - one for the engine and one for the transmission). Used oil analysis (UOA) reports on BobIsTheOilGuy.com have shown wear metals levels comparable to oils marketed as motorcycle-specific.

JASO-MA

JASO is an acronym that stands for "The Japanese Automotive Standards Organization." Among other things, they set standards for oil to be used in motorcycles.

Shell Rotella T 15W-40 conventional oil does list on its packaging JASO MA as one of the specifications it meets. Note that the 10W-30 conventional oil does not list JASO-MA.

The newer fully synthetic T6 5W-40 oil lists JASO-MA compliance on its packaging and on the Rotella website.

Looks good to me. But if you read the thread I linked to above you'll see there's some marketing language trickery going on there. Shell hasn't had JASO test their Rotella oil. They've looked at the JASO-MA spec and decided their oil meets it and so they put JASO-MA on the bottle. There's an official JASO seal of approval that oil makers get if they've paid to have JASO test their oil.

The combination of Shell's own assessment along with the number of riders who say they use it without issue is enough for me and I'll be using Rotella for my next oil change. But they're not technically JASO-MA certified.

I'll have to check that bottle of Accel to see if they list JASO-MA on the bottle too.

What's been most useful for me in this is finally figuring out what some of those oil ratings mean and that what I need to look for is a JASO-MA listing. That at least means the oil manufacturer thinks it should be OK for wet clutches.

4TheKZ1000 wrote: Just use Rotella 15W-40 non-syc

I find it at $11.99 and buy a few at a time.

That's $3.00 a qt.

+1 Get it at Wal mart in the gallon or five quart jugs.

Topper wrote: What's been most useful for me in this is finally figuring out what some of those oil ratings mean and that what I need to look for is a JASO-MA listing. That at least means the oil manufacturer thinks it should be OK for wet clutches.

The thing that recently changed: when I started driving in the 60's, every new grade of oil (like going from SD to SF) was better oil in every way... no question. The problem now is that the newer grades like SN are not better for many usages, they are not even qualified for them because they lack the ZDDP that older engines like our KZ bikes need. It's s ad thing that oil makers are bowing to pressure from the EPA and not making the best oil they can anymore.

Bottom line: just don't put any oil in your bike that says energy conserving on it. Most 10-30 and 5-30 oils are of this type, most 10-40 or 15-45, or 20-50 oils are not so they are good to use.

Do you think the Accel pre-1988 SF oil is likely to have ZDDP in it? Would it list it on the label somewhere?

what ever oil you go get buy a case of it so you get them cheaper in the long run. plus all you would have too do is pick up an oil filter next time you do a change. i got a 12 quats of Valvoline 10W40 4-Stroke for about 50 bucks in the case

Found some specs on the zinc and phosphorus in this oil.

The manufacturer claims 1100ppm of Zinc and 1000ppm phosphorus. Would that offer any advantages over modern dino oil (either mc specific oil or rotella)?

You may want to take a look at the study in the link below. It was performed in 2009 by Amsoil, so there is some bias, but it still contains interesting information. Page 12 shows a zinc chart. Ed

www.dualies.com/downloads/files/Oil%20Te...ults%20-%20g2156.pdf