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TOPIC: Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head

Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 27 Jun 2011 14:52 #459709

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Most of these old KZs have had the guides replaces several times. If you drive the old guides out without removing the carbon from the tip, it will broach the hole as it goes out. Then if a new guide is installed that is not tight enough, the vacuum on the intake side will suck oil down the outside of the guide.

We have seen o-rings like Larry said, and silicone under the base as an attempt to stop this.

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Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 27 Jun 2011 19:35 #459791

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tachrev wrote: I do not see how you can replace the valve seals on that engine without pulling the head.

There is no easy way to compress the valve springs.

It is possible on some heads, and I have done it in cars with an air compressor. But the valve springs are accessible on the ones I did.

On a KZ, the valve springs are down in a pocket inside the head. No room to get a spring compressor in there.

I don't see any other solution that to pull the head.


I"m with you. That job would be a mutha :whistle:

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Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 27 Jun 2011 19:55 #459795

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I love this... <---- sarcasm

rode easily to get scripts, smokes, but not bad, barely going through the oil, bam... like someone turned key off (dash still lit)... pull over, restart, go 3/4 of a mile, does it again. plugs getting no spark, didnt have volt meter to test power to coil packs. pulled pulsiing coil cover and tested igniter (turn key on, touch pulsing coils with screw driver, no spark). been having issues with 1 & 4 not firing and thought i had it fixed, bad connector on coil pack. guess my igniter might be failing instead.

if it aint one thang its another...
or
when it rains, it pours...
or
if it can go wrong, it will...

will try louds hei igniter mod tomorrow i guess.

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Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 28 Jun 2011 21:37 #460039

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let me ask...
if i pull down and look at rings and cylinder number 1-3 oil rings are upside down, can i just flip them? do i need to have cylinders honed again? when i pull it down, will i be able to visually determine if oil ring is upside down?

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Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 29 Jun 2011 00:09 #460058

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The oil rings won't be upside down. It it the expander ends that must "But" together, and then the small circle rings must have the ends basically opposite each other. The Two compression rings will/ should be marked as to which way is up, either a dot or a letter. The top and second ring will be different. Top one could be a chrome face, second might be but probably just cast iron. This depends on manufacturer. I suspect either the oil ring expander is not "Butted" or maybe the two thin oil rings could be bent/ damaged, as they are easy to have trouble with.
1982 KZ1000LTD K2 Vance & Hines 4-1 ACCEL COILS Added Vetter fairing & Bags. FOX Racing rear Shocks, Braced Swing-arm, Fork Brace, Progressive Fork Springs RT Gold Emulators, APE Valve Springs, 1166 Big Bore kit, RS34's, GPZ cams.
1980 KZ550LTD C1 Stock SOLD Miss it
1979 MAZDA RX7 in the works, 13B...

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Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 29 Jun 2011 07:02 #460089

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Quote From ELCouz

EDIT:

Do i have to buy new rings again if i just have oil ring upside down or can i just flip it?


If new bore is required (oversize pistons thus oversize rings needed) or deglazing (honing) again i would recommend so! They don't have side (up or don't doesn't matter) only the oil expander ring have a side and must not be overlapped (like in the previous picture)!


pctech101 haven't you read all the post i've made in this discussion?

what's the point giving my time on this when simple reading could have answered this question!???
1982 KZ810-R1 GPZ with hindle 4-into-1 pipe

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Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 29 Jun 2011 12:43 #460125

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i have a poor memory, yes i read that previously. im sorry i am wasting your time. it is hard for me to read this on my cellphone screen.

so mod, you can close this thread since it appears you cant replace valve stem seals with head on bike.

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Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 29 Jun 2011 13:04 #460128

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I think that you will find that Yes you can replace the valve stem oil seals with the cylinder head still on the motor and in the bike. I thought that besides myself, there was other posts in your current thread about this. The biggie is that you would need some additional tools, expense. This may exceed the value of a few new gaskets. Also the majority opinion is that the Stem seals would not have the oil consumption level you are discussing. that is why it is recommended to pull the head and cylinders to inspect.
Why close the thread when you may still need help/ advice?
1982 KZ1000LTD K2 Vance & Hines 4-1 ACCEL COILS Added Vetter fairing & Bags. FOX Racing rear Shocks, Braced Swing-arm, Fork Brace, Progressive Fork Springs RT Gold Emulators, APE Valve Springs, 1166 Big Bore kit, RS34's, GPZ cams.
1980 KZ550LTD C1 Stock SOLD Miss it
1979 MAZDA RX7 in the works, 13B...

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Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 29 Jun 2011 13:12 #460131

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well, my experience with forums is sticking to topic. topic should be changed to something better than replacing valve stem seals without pulling head.
thats all...

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Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 29 Jun 2011 13:18 #460133

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Its your thread and your bike. Do a fresh thread if you feel like it, and even though you asked a specific question in this thread it was answered. Then since the oil consumption is so high, people try to help with a suggestion from their experience. That's what this forum is for, and it is great, it brings people together with varied experience to bring to sorting out issues like yours. Sometimes you get an answer you don't want/ like, but that's expected when there are so many different people that can easily type.
1982 KZ1000LTD K2 Vance & Hines 4-1 ACCEL COILS Added Vetter fairing & Bags. FOX Racing rear Shocks, Braced Swing-arm, Fork Brace, Progressive Fork Springs RT Gold Emulators, APE Valve Springs, 1166 Big Bore kit, RS34's, GPZ cams.
1980 KZ550LTD C1 Stock SOLD Miss it
1979 MAZDA RX7 in the works, 13B...

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Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 29 Jun 2011 13:47 #460137

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i really appreciate yalls help. just confused on what to do next. i understand how to tear down. i now understand the oil ring cant be upside down, so if i have oil consumption through my rings, i cant afford new oversized pistons. which i dont grasp that. if my old pistons and rings didnt leak oil, how come in would need oversized now? i have to figure this out as cheaply as possible. i keep getting confused. damn depression i am struggling with isnt helping me none.
i am literally under a shade tree, on red texas dirt, working on her. what should my next steps be? pull jugs and measure pistons, sleaves, and gaps?

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Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 29 Jun 2011 13:51 #460138

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I've only just seen this topic so I thought I'd join in;

You can do the valve seals with the head on but to be honest it's a right pain, I made a valve out of an old spark plug so I could attach an air line to it, each cylinder, both valves closed, attach the air line and it holds the valves up. Stripping it is easy but putting the collets back in to secure the valve springs is a bastard of a job and I'd just take the head off.

Tell tale signs of valve seals having gone hard is when the bike has been left for a period of time it produces clouds of blue smoke on starting, that's due to the oil that has collected around the camshaft running past the valve seal while the engine is at rest and into the cylinder.

Blue smoke at 75 mph etc is pistons, I've relaced hundreds over the years (as a job, not a fetish) and the problem is that piston rings are harder than the pistons and so the grooves / lands in the piston wear and the rings move about, replacing rings is essentially a temporary measure and can be fine but if the piston is worn it's just false economy. I see you've already done the rings so something can't have beeen right before, make sure that when re-ringing all the carbon is removed from the piston where the ring sits or it'll never seat properly. It looks like it's back to the drawing board and take the top end off again. :ohmy:
2004 Harley Davidson Softail
1981 Z1000 Chop
1982 KZ1100 A2
XS 650 Plunger Chop (in bits)

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Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 29 Jun 2011 13:54 #460139

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Well if it was mine I would pull the cylinders and inspect, looking real close at all of the rings. If the expander for your oil ring does not have the ends "Butted" the oil ring cannot scrape the cylinder walls excess oil back to the crankcase and it will burn it till the plug fouls. Get it somewhere where you feel comfortable taking it apart, as it may be apart for several days waiting on parts, etc. If you must do it outside, get some plastic bags to cover the open engine, rags to stuff in the crankcase, maybe some coffee cans and empty egg containers to help keep things organized. You do have the proper Kawasaki Manual for your bike and some basic tools, correct?
1982 KZ1000LTD K2 Vance & Hines 4-1 ACCEL COILS Added Vetter fairing & Bags. FOX Racing rear Shocks, Braced Swing-arm, Fork Brace, Progressive Fork Springs RT Gold Emulators, APE Valve Springs, 1166 Big Bore kit, RS34's, GPZ cams.
1980 KZ550LTD C1 Stock SOLD Miss it
1979 MAZDA RX7 in the works, 13B...

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Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 29 Jun 2011 14:00 #460140

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pctech101 wrote: ...83 kz1100-L1...new rings...200+ miles since reassembled...Compression is 150 on all 4....

Imo, that's acceptable compression, indicating compression rings, pistons, and bore condition to be okay as is. Existing valve seals and guides may also be okay.

An issue with the oil rings is suspected as resulting in excessive oil consumption, even where everything else is hunky-dory.

Good Fortune! :)
1973 Z1
KZ900 LTD

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Last edit: by Patton.

Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 29 Jun 2011 14:01 #460141

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Just a thought, did you make sure the gaps in each ring are spaced apart from each other and not in line, they need to be 120 degrees apart.
2004 Harley Davidson Softail
1981 Z1000 Chop
1982 KZ1100 A2
XS 650 Plunger Chop (in bits)

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Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 29 Jun 2011 14:14 #460146

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ive got my clymer, and the tools needed to take her apart (except valve stuff) all shoved in my saddlebags. dads a horder so there are plenty of cans i can use for keeping things organized. got tarp, trash bags, lots of shop rags.

cylinder 1 is worst, followed by 3rd, then 2nd. 4 is fine

my personal opinion is there isnt/wasnt any extra up down movement on rings. they fit snuggly in its groove. i spent 2 days removing carbon out of the grooves; i think i did a good job there. i had no binding on rings rotating them around piston in grooves.

i didnt verify that ring gaps are staggered 120 degrees.

i will go outside in a few minutes and get stuff organized and take some pics of rings when i get that far.

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Last edit: by pctech101.

Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 29 Jun 2011 14:19 #460147

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That's the way, take some photos how it goes all back together. Since you don't have any valve tools, you might be able to go back to the shop that did the head. Maybe they would check/ replace the stem seals for you. Or you could rent a decent spring compressor, also Harbor Freight/ China Tools would have a C-Clamp Style cheap. Or you can make something work, like Patton posted.
1982 KZ1000LTD K2 Vance & Hines 4-1 ACCEL COILS Added Vetter fairing & Bags. FOX Racing rear Shocks, Braced Swing-arm, Fork Brace, Progressive Fork Springs RT Gold Emulators, APE Valve Springs, 1166 Big Bore kit, RS34's, GPZ cams.
1980 KZ550LTD C1 Stock SOLD Miss it
1979 MAZDA RX7 in the works, 13B...

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Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 29 Jun 2011 15:12 #460151

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i borrowed my fathers feeler gauges, i can barely read them.
the thinnest feeler has 3 rows with the following:
.006
.152
mm

what am i looking at?
i need to measure between .05-.15mm
i am wanting to measure valve clearance so if i need shims i can order with gaskets.
also z1 is out of o-rings for 4 oil gallies for cylinder to jug gaskets. anyone recommend good replacement supplier? cant use paypal for payments(no ebay).

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Last edit: by pctech101.

Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 29 Jun 2011 15:21 #460152

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For shims, you need the right kit. Measure all the gaps and note each one down, if they're in tolerence thats fine, if not you need to remove the shim and measure that with a micrometer and note that down against the gap.

Current gap + Shim size - standard gap = new shim size

If you have a credit card try Z Power at Leigh in the UK. They are without doubt Kawasaki gods, even Kawasaki UK sent me to them for Z750B parts even the factory didn't have. Their reply to me was "how many you want, we've got hundreds".

Good luck.
2004 Harley Davidson Softail
1981 Z1000 Chop
1982 KZ1100 A2
XS 650 Plunger Chop (in bits)

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Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 29 Jun 2011 15:35 #460153

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im still confused on feeler gauge.
isnt .152mm more than .15mm doesnt that make the feelers i have not thin enough?

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