TOPIC:

interesting, I wonder what the cams look like...are the cam lobes cut on an angle to accomodate the angled valves?

9am53 wrote:

it was, but once we got off that topic and started tanking about 4v katanas I thought I would re-ask about radial valves beause last time I asked that question nobody got back to me.

Sorry about that, i like the older suzukis as well as the kaws..

no worries, so do I! I like to learn too, this is why I ask so many questions. I now have info on 2 quesitons not jsut the original one so I should actually thank you!

This was/is a great thread, lots of toes getting stepped on. Peoples opinion is there own, but oh how they fight for them eh? the statement that modern sport bikes are unreliable and require more engine repairs really floored me, my opinion is that modern bikes are subject to the best engineering, testing and metallography that was only dreamed of when the KZ was in development and are the most reliable and resilient bikes ever made. And the statement that new plastic bikes wont be around in 30 years? Come on man that is just ridiculous. I will guarantee you in 25 years that whatever medium we are using to sell stuff that it will be full of CBR900RR and Hayabusa's bringing very good money.
The production ZL-1 had steel sleeves. The CAM-AM zl-1 had a high silicon content aluminum, but it didn't work and they ended up plating the pistons with something. The technology of the 60-70's is antiquated at best and pointless to compare to today manufacturing practices.

9am53 wrote:

interesting, I wonder what the cams look like...are the cam lobes cut on an angle to accomodate the angled valves?

My understanding is No, the cam's look like ours, which causes a bit of side loading on the valve stem. It is mentioned on a thread I read else where I can look around for the link later. Some folks claim the benifits of radial valves do not out weigh the potential risk of higher wear.

I personally like the idea, could you immagin how much nicer it would be to run hi lift cams and hi compression pistons without using pistons that look like modren art?

flht1997 wrote:

This was/is a great thread, lots of toes getting stepped on. Peoples opinion is there own, but oh how they fight for them eh? the statement that modern sport bikes are unreliable and require more engine repairs really floored me, my opinion is that modern bikes are subject to the best engineering, testing and metallography that was only dreamed of when the KZ was in development and are the most reliable and resilient bikes ever made. And the statement that new plastic bikes wont be around in 30 years? Come on man that is just ridiculous. I will guarantee you in 25 years that whatever medium we are using to sell stuff that it will be full of CBR900RR and Hayabusa's bringing very good money.
The production ZL-1 had steel sleeves. The CAM-AM zl-1 had a high silicon content aluminum, but it didn't work and they ended up plating the pistons with something. The technology of the 60-70's is antiquated at best and pointless to compare to today manufacturing practices.

One thing we are forgetting to mention here that I think affects the longevity of todays modern bikes is the consumer zeitgeist. Back in the day something was built with the purpose to last a while. If something would break you would call someone to fix it. If your tv was not working you would call over an electrician to replace tubes and fix it, now if your tv is not covered by warranty you replace the tv itself. If there are any refrigeration techs here I am sure you can agree that the old window shakers or de-humidifiers are far superior in quality to the new plastic ones. Electronics are now built using printed circuit boards instead of point to point (for many obvious reasons) but now they are so cheap to buy that we just replace the whole unit instead of fixing old ones. We are adicted to replacing the old with the new. I believe that the new, albeit far superior technologically, bikes are not going to last as long simply because they are being built with the mindset that they are just going to be replaced, not cherished and maintained for years to come, so small concessions in quality can be made to squeeze a couple more horse, or shed a few more pounds. I'm a big lad, and sitting on a new bike fills me with fear that I am going to break it just be sitting on it, exhasut pipes are thin and everything is rinky dink. Sure they are built to higher levels of tolerance and technology, but we are consumed with having stuff, so the bikes have become soulless automatons of speed which are obsolete once a new style comes out.

Being a big fella, how do you find the seating positions on the newer stuff? Im a larger guy as well and they just dont seem like i could spend any long periods of time on them. A ZRX or Bandit would be about as new as i can go, or a concours/wing/harley i suppose.

I did not want to read the whole thread, because about half way threw the first page things started to get a bit PISSY. This than could have been already covered. In the old bikes our engines were almost SQUARE. When the 900 was square and the Z2 which was the original concept was a long stroke. As the engine progressed it did not change much threw the J motor. Because these engines had a relatively long stroke to bore ratio, the pistons could have long skirts because there was enough room. The new engines are so over square, that there is not enough room to support the long skirt for clearance and piston mass. The cranks got lighter to support the high RPM and the pistons had to reflect the mass differential also. Where can you remove mass? Well it sure cant be from the crown, so the skirt starts to disappear. So in a short explanation; when you have a grossly over square engine which has a light crank shaft you have no choice than to remove material from the piston skirt. It must be realized that these new bikes turn 16K or more.

The End

will61310 wrote:

Being a big fella, how do you find the seating positions on the newer stuff? Im a larger guy as well and they just dont seem like i could spend any long periods of time on them. A ZRX or Bandit would be about as new as i can go, or a concours/wing/harley i suppose.

That's maybe another reason I prefer old bikes, I can't seem to fit on new ones. When I look at a new connie at the dealership I drool and pop a half shaft, but as I walk up to it I realize it looks like a minibike. A connie is not a "small" bike by any means, I mean it's 1400cc's and the front fairing is quite wide, but I can't bend my ankles and knees like that even for the 30 seconds in the store let alone hours on the road.

I'm a big guy too and a buddy of mine has a GSX-R 1000, I rode it for about 15 minutes and my hips were killing me. The position is just like riding a race horse, you are basically in a continual squat. They are just not designed for us fatsos lol.

was just over on the yamaha owners site,seems that theyre having problems with cranks and rods going junk on 0n the 06-07 r6 models. sure am glad the new bikes are so overbuilt! looks like theyve also had issues with countershaft sprockets nuts backing off destroying engine cases,coils shorting out........ uh oh looks like theyve got noisy topends and valvetrains also! thank god for the yamaha owners site or would never know how good they actually are. oopsies forgot bad valve springs! transmission problems,ecu problems

from hyabusa site:cracked frames and or sub frames.transmission problems.fuel injection and ecu problems.hydraulic clutch leaks.tires wearing funny......cam chain tensioner failure,glad to see theyve gotten that issue solved .with all this new technology you think they could make a tensioner that would hold up to a 13000 rpm motor!