1st. time engine builders

I started this thread, hoping that some of the older engine builders, could share some wisdom with the newer guys. I know it is hard to build something when you don't have years of experience to draw from. Most people just want it to run better or go faster, one size will not fit all. I think one of the hardest things for a human being to do, is to fully understand their own needs. I did say "needs" not "wants" or "desires"

Once you fully understand your true needs, then you can seek help from others or a repair manual. Without understanding your own needs, you will be lead astray at the cost of an empty wallet, and a disappointing project.

I will try to break bikes down, into five basic categories:

Stock - Everyone knows this one. A good running stock Z should be able to burn rubber and top out, in the neighborhood of 120 mph. It should have a good idle and be able to be riden in and out of traffic, all day long.

Touring - Most people riding their bikes long distance may want some improvements. Most of these bikes are heavier or carry two people. Changes mainly include gearing, exhaust systems and sometimes newer carbs. This works for the guy that needs just a little power boost with reliability.

NOTE: From this point on, you need to give something, to get something. Either your power band will be raised, with the loss of some bottom end or you will risk reliability. It's just a fact of life we have to live with.

Performance - I find this to be the most common type of build. Something where you can race around with your friends and once in awhile, take it to the drag strip for fun. Your parts selection is critical because of reliability and keeping your motor within a useable power range. You want that extra get up and go, but you may want to take your girl, for a ride once in awhile. At this point I say when you decide what cams, pistons and carbs to buy. Always buy the next size smaller, it goes back to what we think our needs are vs what we really need. If your going to buy big parts, forget reliability and leave the girl at home. These motors get the most abuse! What are you willing to give up?

Bracket Racing - These bikes have big pistons and big cams with large carbs. These bike see very little street use and are not for an unexperienced rider/tuner. What are you willing to give up?

Drag Racing - Anything goes, with no limits bring your wallet. Bikes are not for street riding. These motors are built to run for a short time at a given RPM. These motors do not sit and idle, they must be rebuilt very offen. What are you willing to give up?

I think most of the time that people aren't willing to give up a lot. Use your head when buying parts or planning a build, after all, what is your true needs?
It is better to use your motor for a stepping stone, not a stumbling block.

I hope others can add some wisdom to this thread......

I, for one, applaud this attempt.

The one thing I think I've realized from being on this forum is that I fall in the stock/touring category. I came into this thinking I was in the performance category and now realize that I would rather have reliability and, more importantly, daily ride-ability.

It took me quite a while to find this out for myself - maybe this will help others who are coming into this the same way.

And, as always, thanks to all of you seasoned and experienced members who help out the noobs like myself no matter how dumb our questions sound (and most likely are)!

great write up. I too like many people jump in wanting every possible performance upgrade and want to go as fast as possible. Since i first acquired my kz1000 i have gone from originally wanting a hardcore big block, to wanting a dragbike that i can also drive quite often. 1170 10.25:1, welded crank, backcut tranny(sent out tranny yesterday), J head, .410 cams, and 36 flatslides. Should be a nice combo. After weighing my wants and needs and with the help of kzr members i have decided on this combo

Don't be afraid to ask.....there's a bunch of know it alls around these parts.:lol:

DoubleDub wrote:

I, for one, applaud this attempt.

The one thing I think I've realized from being on this forum is that I fall in the stock/touring category. I came into this thinking I was in the performance category and now realize that I would rather have reliability and, more importantly, daily ride-ability.

It took me quite a while to find this out for myself - maybe this will help others who are coming into this the same way.

And, as always, thanks to all of you seasoned and experienced members who help out the noobs like myself no matter how dumb our questions sound (and most likely are)!

If you take your basic kz touring motor for example. It is easy to forget how fast they really are. Most of the time when you add an exhaust system, newer carbs and some geraing, you have a bike that can run in the 11 second range. Now lets compare that to an 11 second car. An 11 second bracket race car, is very light and uses slicks (most of the time). With just a few simple mods you can have a touring bike with speed and reliability. It seems like a good judgement call, for you.

just remember to match the combination of parts for what youre trying to accomplish,and be realistic about what your needs and abilitys really are.a 9 sec motor might sound cool,but its of very little use in a 12 second bike with a 13 second rider!:laugh:

Yeah yeah yeah

PLUMMEN wrote:

just remember to match the combination of parts for what youre trying to accomplish,and be realistic about what your needs and abilitys really are.a 9 sec motor might sound cool,but its of very little use in a 12 second bike with a 13 second rider!:laugh:

Thanks, that is the clearest description, I think that anyone can understand that one.

I figure I have a 12 second bike with a matching stock motor, and I am a 29 second rider!

My definition of performance is a good daily crape so I think I will stick the the reliable stock - run all day every day machine. :S

Good thread.
I'm more in the class of 'restorer', as in back to original. Most forget what great bikes these were out of the box.

Sure, people's personality may need to be expressed, but there's accessories and custom art for that without having to affect the perfomance too much. A mash of mix/mis-matched engine parts really doesn't do any good, for performance or the engine.

That said, and being somewhat new to this, could someone take a stab at the cross-compatibility of engine parts between the In-Line-Fours for me. Especially the 550, 650 and 750, but also if it relates well with the Z1.

I had several long conversations with some very knowledgeable friends before I started collecting parts. These guys have long experience and a pile of trophies from building and riding drag bikes, road racing bikes, hot street bikes and toruing bikes. Their advice was basically the same as in the first post of this thread. The real difficulty is that most motorcyclists are emotionally involved with their machines and with the lifestyle surounding it. Making a rational judgement about what will really be best and most pleasurable in the long run is often difficult. I suppose that's not really different from the rest of life. Decisions based on feeding our emotions alone most often lead us to misery down the road.

Not that I want to hijack this thread, but I really think we need to keep a broader picture in mind when considering mods. The engine is only one compnent of perfomance, whether on the street or on a track. Appropriate suspension components and setup can as dramatically affect one of our old bikes as a pile of engine parts. Even a 500hp bike will not get down the track, through the twisties, or down the superslab with luggage and a passenger all that well with worn out stock suspension, marginal brakes and a flexible frame.

However, the most important component (imo) is that nut on the seat. A 9 second bike with a 29 second rider will get a 29 second time slip, or a crash. It ain't as flashy, nor is it as easy, but perhaps we should spend at least as much time and money on improving our riding skills as we do on cams, carbs, shocks and bling.

A 9 second bike with a 29 second rider will get a 29 second time slip, or a crash. It ain't as flashy, nor is it as easy, but perhaps we should spend at least as much time and money on improving our riding skills as we do on cams, carbs, shocks and bling.

Cheers to that my friend!

I'm deffinately in the touring/daily reliable category.

I think the biggest factor that new performance builders under estimate is the cost involved to rebuild or modify a performance bike.
As the build progresses the cost mount quickly and the unexperienced builder start taking short cuts in order to save money.
What started out as a desire to build a combo street/dragbike (or any other combo bike) that would cruise all day through the curves and then run 9 second ETs at the strip suddenly turns into a bike that is less than fun to ride on the street and is lucky to run in the 11 second range at the strip.
As said earlier in this string, you have to be honest with yourself and decide early on in the building process what you will be using the bike for..the majority of the time!

When I first started dragracing (many years ago) I put together build sheets for the chassis, engine, electronics, machine work, outsourced labor and misc items.
For example; for the chassis build sheet I'd listed all the parts necessary for a bracket type dragbike chassis. Next to the part description I'd list the retail cost of the part. When I was ready to build a new chassis I'd pull out my chassis build sheet check off the the parts I'd need and tally up the cost. There was never any suprises as to what the bracket chassis was going to cost. Same senerio for the engine and electronics, I knew going in what my budget was and what my cost would be.
This system works well for me and worked for my first Triumph Tiger Cub 250cc dragbike (D/modified) up to the 1600 cc KZ funnybike I had in the 90s. I'm still building engines and bikes and still using build sheets.
The new (old school) turbo bike should be completed in May....

Buzz