Engine problems, now in technicolor!

Well guys, I'm really still stumped on this one, it's just getting into riding season and I am dying here, I am sick and tired of this project :dry: it's been a LONG time.

I have posted some video of me trying to troubleshoot the 650. Forgive me when my rambling gets incoherent... too much fumeage :blush:

Progress today =

1: Once started it idled pretty dang high (1.2-1.5kRPM) on full choke only and would die instantly with any throttle until it was real warmed up. It will also die if you even BREATHE on the choke.
Video here

2: Once warmed up it would respond to a little throttle, it would even rev up to roughly 4.5-6kRPM then it would bounce back down despite throttle position like it hit the ceiling. The idle also settled back down to just shy of 1000RPM but would hunt and be inconsistent and rough. Pipe #1 seemed too cold to me, touchably cold. The other three seemed acceptable.
Video here

3: On the center stand when I had the clutch in and it was in neutral everything seemed normal, but if I turned it on with it in 1st gear with the clutch in the tire would start to spin up and gently coast to a stop. Also, if I let the clutch out, I could go through all the gears with no load on the tire just fine. However, if I had the bike on the ground and tried even gently to slip the clutch out it would die before it barely got rolling.
Video here
Note: I meant to say "The starter seems to be engaging the wheel even with the CLUTCH in, not " the choke in""

So this is REALLY not good, I seem to have a lack of combusting, a lack of transmission-working, a lack of proper fuel-delivery, and who knows what else.

I am totally running out of steam on this one.

Anybody got any advice? I just did valve job, gasket set, new plugs, carb clean, new battery. Suddenly it seems like this bike is a total basket case waste of money to me...

Everything is normal except for the fuel mixture, you probably have a vacuum leak between the carb holders and the head, or possibly cracked carb holders.

The wheel spin is caused by friction, long explanation though.

I agree with steel, not enough gas or major air leak which would act the same. Sounds like it's running on 3cyl, check the ignition system just to eliminate that, You can spray some carb spray around the carb holders and listen for a reaction. Keep us posted...

I will get on this tomorrow. Anything that can substitute for carb cleaner?

Good thing the wheel spin is normal.

But would a teeny vacuum leak incapacitate the entire bike?

I mean... it doesn't matter how I try to get it moving. It WILL stall IMMEDIATELY...

Try switching a plug wire with #1 to see if the cold cyl is a bad plug wire then switch a spark plug.If you have good spatk it must not be getting fuel.

you can substitute just about anything sprayable for carb cleaner. WD-40 is what the Clymer manual suggests but pretty much anything will work. Just remember it will be sucked into the engine so don't spray anything you wouldnt want in there. Check all the simple things before you get discouraged. Check the plugs, wires, caps etc. Once you have it firing on 4 cylanders again you can move on to the carbs if you DONT have an air leak. My bike my idling very rough until I adjusted the air screws on the carbs today, now it's pretty decent.

Ron

I used to have starting problems with my bike (carbs were all gummed-up) and would use starting fluid to aid starting. To do this I would remove the air filter and spray a small amount of starter fluid into the carbs. Once it would start, it would idle at over 2000 rpms and I couldn't figure out why. I thought I might have an air leak but it didn't occur to me that removing the air filter was allowing way more air into the cylinders than any other air leak. Once I reinstalled the air filter the bike idled at more like 1000 rpm's. Sometimes the obvious is right in front of our faces and our frustration blinds us.
Grant.

Grantl wrote:

I used to have starting problems with my bike (carbs were all gummed-up) and would use starting fluid to aid starting. To do this I would remove the air filter and spray a small amount of starter fluid into the carbs. Once it would start, it would idle at over 2000 rpms and I couldn't figure out why. I thought I might have an air leak but it didn't occur to me that removing the air filter was allowing way more air into the cylinders than any other air leak. Once I reinstalled the air filter the bike idled at more like 1000 rpm's. Sometimes the obvious is right in front of our faces and our frustration blinds us.
Grant.

I AM running it with open mouthed CV carbs.

But that doesn't explain why it dies as soon as the choke is even wiggled, even after it's warm, why it bounces revs and dies down instead of revving normally, or why it won't start rolling without stalling.

I DO need to get airbox tubes though, I just can't justify it right now with how often I am whipping the carbs on/off the bike.

nfswift wrote:

I AM running it with open mouthed CV carbs.

Did you check the carb diaphragms for holes/tears?

was the bike running prior to doing the valve job?

what was the reason for the head to be redone?

have you checked the petcock screen in the tank to see if it might be restricting fule flow?

I do know some people that have the cv carbs, all of them tell the same story, you have to take them apart at least 3 times to get them to work right,

I would also follow wiredgeorge's plan, check the basics first, compression, spark, valve lash, timing, even though you had the head off I would recheck this, I have run the valves before and found that I had made a mistake and had to redo the shim to correct it

The carbs are the problem. It isn't possible to say if the problem was incomplete cleaning or just tuning based on what was written... either issue will cause these symptoms. I would also make sure the jetting is correct and that the airbox or pods or whatever are installed as NO airbox on CV carbs creates a lean condition which will definitely contribute to the issues you have.

I was just about to say what WireGeorge said. As you said, you have open mouthed CV carbs and generally you have alot of air going in and the choke sorta gives you the right fuel mixture, but when you shut off the choke you lean it out, possible too lean. I suggest air filters and a change of jets if you are gonna go pods. I'm learning George!