WEIRD ENGINE BREAK IN?

ah..so it is normal engine oil then.

Gotcha.

I have always run my engines in the way I intend to ride them and have never had problems with an engine starting to have ring or bearing worries.
As said previously, oil changes in the early miles are critical due to wear metal particles from the bedding in process, doe'nt hurt to change the filter either.
Also, just like aircraft engines, the engine should be warmed up properly before trying to wind the tacho needle off the dial.
Synthetic oil or mineral oil, depends on your riding type and your wallet, just be regular with oil/filter changes.
Tony

Up here in Finland most of the old Kwak fanatics that I know use mineral oil. I used first some high-grade-crotch-rocket-oil (because my bro has a 10R). I thougt that my tranny and clutch were totally trashed, gears were sticky, couldn´t find neutral, clutch felt sticky. Then I asked some more experienced guys and they said immediately that I should change oil. And I did and it made a huge difference, engine runs smoother, tranny works better, clutch more sensitive and so on.

So one wote for good old mineral oil! And it´s so cheap that it´s almost free:woohoo:

I had a brand new 1975 Z1-900 that I broke in following the factory recommended procedure. After several thousand miles, engine compression, using two different manufacturer's gauges, showed 145 psi in each cylinder which is about what the factory manual says it should be.

Then I put in a new set of rings in this motor, and broke the engine in following the late Gordon Jennings method where you run the engine to redline in 4th gear several times, providing cooldowns between each 'to redline' ride/run all the while looking for the police. After a number of runs over several days, I checked the compression using those same two compression gauges and found that compression in each cylinder was 175 psi. Breaking in a motor on a dyno is definitely a better method however.

I think there is a bit of difference between breaking in a NEW engine and one that has thousands of miles but has been honed or bored and new rings installed. The MAIN purpose of the break-in for a re-ring is to seat the rings. Bob and Dr Zed both noted that if you ride the bike like you stole it, the rings will seat nicely. If you ride the bike like it was a new engine, they won't seat as well... I have also noted this from personal experience. I think after a re-ring, the only real no-no is to drone along at a single speed on a freeway... Vary engine speeds and run it up to redline a few times... The rings will bite and you will get good compression.

Breaking in engine theories are like having good sex theories..... If it works for you..keep doing it.

IMO...without getting into every detail...

Don't get carried away with oil in the cylinders when you assemble the motor for starters.

Ultra RPM on fresh motor is not required. On the same notion, ultra low RPM or moderate but maintained RPM for extended periods is definitely bad...

Fresh cylinders have high spots that you need to take advantage of before they're gone....one they are worn away, they're not coming back...

New cams require at least 3K for 30 minutes so I keep things between 3K & 4K for that period. Main thing is the RPM is the tach is never allowed to get camped on a number...

I always have a fan on the motor too.

Roller crank KZ motors are far more tollerant to RPM than a brand new shell bearing motor on initial run in with cold oil...

larrycavan wrote:

Breaking in engine theories are like having good sex theories..... If it works for you..keep doing it.

IMO...without getting into every detail...

Don't get carried away with oil in the cylinders when you assemble the motor for starters.

Ultra RPM on fresh motor is not required. On the same notion, ultra low RPM or moderate but maintained RPM for extended periods is definitely bad...

Fresh cylinders have high spots that you need to take advantage of before they're gone....one they are worn away, they're not coming back...

New cams require at least 3K for 30 minutes so I keep things between 3K & 4K for that period. Main thing is the RPM is the tach is never allowed to get camped on a number...

I always have a fan on the motor too.

Roller crank KZ motors are far more tollerant to RPM than a brand new shell bearing motor on initial run in with cold oil...

In 10w-30, 10 is the viscosity, which represents it's state of liquidity at different temperatures like 70 and 200 deg. W is winter grade. 30 is to do with the added polymers that thicken in the oil at higher tempereatures were the oil would be too thin by itself. Regular oil has many impurities that cannot be removed. Old style oil had poor quality polmers that broke down from heat. Now there are advanced polmers with many good properties. Regula oil breaks down around 210-240 and synthetic 260--290. I'm not exactly sure about those numbers but it's close anyway. People camshafts in cars started to wear (new ones), and they tracked it to the absense of zinc diethyl or something like that, and one other ingredient. Those two were responsible for coating the metal and it makes for an extremely strong film that is slippery. Roller cams can get by because the loads are less. Rotella has these two ingredience, but there is talk that the amount is going to be reduced. I guess these are not evirementally friendly substances. I wonder if bulk oil will have diff. amounts of the good chemicals than what you get in the jug at wall mart.

Post edited by: nads.com, at: 2007/01/27 20:38

When you put load on your pistons and rings by throttling up the motor parts are being pushed in the direction the forces push. When force is increased loads shift direction and increase. Parts will try to cut new grooves in which to ride. When one path has already been cut and another presents itself, there are now to paths, which is more cut metal. This displacement and rearrangement of metal causes smoothing of surfaces and more total clearance, also less stable envirement for load displacement. ONe way or the highway. Break the motor in fast and sure that way its tighter. Just don't go too crazy the few times you gas it, so parts can slide into place and cut in smoothly.

I thought I might learn something which would revolutionize my engine rebuilding success over the last 25 or so years, so always in search of the hidden wisdom, I went to the website listed and found this little bit of arcane knowledge. . .

If you think about it, the ring exerts maybe 5-10 lbs of spring tension against the cylinder wall ...
How can such a small amount of spring tension seal against thousands of PSI (Pounds Per Square Inch) of combustion pressure ?? Of course it can't.

Let's do the math and see, shall we?

Atmospheric pressure = @ 14.7 psi as example (sea level)

8.5 (14.7) to 1 = 124.95 psi

9.5 (14.7) to 1 = 139.65 psi

10.5 (14.7) to 1 = 154.35 psi

12.5 (14.7 to 1 = 183.75 psi

I wonder how far I have to take this table to get to "thousands of PSI"

I think diesal engines generate 22 to 1 . . .

22 (14.7) to 1 = 323.4 still not there. . .

so I think I have a little concern with what is being heralded as the "wring it out to maximize it" method.

Sure, gas pressure seals the rings, but I question the logic in taking a newly built/rebuilt heat generator to thermal limits immediately if parts like bearings, which are sometimes lead lined, are not given an opportunity to seat in under minimal loading. Aircraft engines might be a good analogy for an air-cooled engine like a motorcycle, but you don't get proper airflow around a six-cylinder air-cooled aircraft motor (or the oil cooler on any engine equipped) while it is sitting at low idle on the tarmac. So you have to run them up. There is also the issue that aircraft engines receive rebuilds based on hours, not mileage, so longevity is not really an issue for them, or for engines used in race applications for that matter. I wonder how many of the "wring it out" method get 300,000 miles or more of engine use? Off the record, I had a buddy with a vehicle who put over 157,000 miles on the original front brakes. The engine oil on that truck at 3000 mile intervals looked new.

Post edited by: KaZooCruiser, at: 2007/01/29 14:38

KaZooCruiser - We aren't talking about breaking in engines... these engines were broken in 30 years ago... we are talking about seating some NEW rings on freshly honed cylinder walls. I doubt taking the old bearings up to redline a couple times will do any damage if it didn't hurt them before the re-ring.

Hi George . . . maybe I missed something here. . .

kawadruida wrote:

Hey guys, I´m about to get my hands back on my ´84 GPz550 right after a top end rebuild . . .

www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

Frankly, this goes against everything I´ve heard about a proper engine break-in. What do you you think about this, guys?

The title of the topic says it all: WEIRD ENGINE BREAK IN
It seems the question (and the responses) deal with BOTH a top-end rebuild and "a proper engine break-in."

If you go to the "secrets" page. . .you will see that the author is talking about new engine break-in, with statements about 300 engines and etc. Maybe the original post was limited to ring-seating, but the confusion and commentary following it deserves whatever input might assist clearing it up. I personally don't care if someone wants to rev to whatever extreme they choose. I've done wheelies to pull the strech out of a chain. It's just misstatements of "thousands of psi" that don't add truth or clarity to the mix which need to be corrected by fact.

Post edited by: KaZooCruiser, at: 2007/01/29 17:50

Post edited by: KaZooCruiser, at: 2007/01/29 17:53