Deciding what to do to the bike?

genxrider wrote: If it were me, I would spend some time with the bike- give it a full detail job- "get to know it" so to speak. This will give you thoughts like- "I need to fix that, this needs replaced, those tires don't look so good" etc. Make a list of parts needed to make it roadworthy and safe first. You can always order parts, but wasted money is a drag on the wallet and the mind. Look around at other bikes like yours and get ideas there. After seeing a huge percentage of kz440's all chopped up, turned into scramblers brats etc- I decided to keep mine in stock form just to be different. Bobber kz's are a dime a dozen and modding these bikes into something far from stock is a nasty fad that I think a lot of people will end up regretting in the end.

This is some excellent advice, that will most likely be ignored. Some pics and a little background of the bike would probably help us help you. Does it run? I assume no.. that would be a place to start. A Kz440 is pretty low on power to begin with, and almost every "upgrade" you mentioned will make it even slower, but HEY, at least you will know where it's at at all-hours of the day.. PARKED in your garage until you get tired of tripping over it. lol

Here is a Kz440, that this delirious peron thought I might be willing to trade for my running, titled, Iron-head sporty. OR willing to sell for $3200.00 outright. Ummm.. yeahright. Lots of custom just dripping off ot this abortion. OH, did I mention it did not run?. JUST needed wired. smh

I'm loving all the advice you are giving me. So I'd like to say a massive thank you!! I like the honesty you're giving without coming across as nasty - something I have seen from another forum. I wasn't trying to sound like an ass further up the thread where I asked about being non the wiser about how the modified bike would ride.

The only downside to all the advice you give is it makes me think of more questions! haha.

old_kaw - the bike doesn't run, no. The shop I bought it from had it firing on 'easy start' spray but I think given the time it's been stood for, it would need the carbs cleaning etc... The lack of power doesn't bother me as I'm not into speed. It's all about enjoying where you are and what you're using. The bike would only be for open road riding, so nothing in busy towns or cities.

Just out of interest, is the worst idea on the list the gsxr front end? Would there ever be a 'right' way of putting a modern set of upside down forks on the bike?
I know the 440 won't be the last word in light weight, but would it be such a bad goal to have - trying to remove as much weight as possible?

Lastly, of my other ideas I suggested in a previous post, aside from the subframe modification, would any of these fit in with the advice you have kindly given me?
KZ400 rear spoke wheel with 17inch rim.
GT550 or KZ750 shaped fuel tank (won't be a stock tank though)
Remove subframe and make something flatter (like kz400). It wouldn't be a 'normal' subframe however.
Can't decide on clip ons or mx style bars.
Single gauge - just a speedo.
Custom rear brake & indicator lights.
Custom exhaust headers but unsure of silencer/muffler. I have 3 ideas there.

Thank you,
Kyle.

The gsxr front end is a mismatch for a little bike. It will not fit and is heavy. Cut up the frame? What for? it's your bike. I've seen it done in the past.
You have training / experience in ? The members on KzR give some solid advice. You aren't going to get many replies here that condone butchering that kaw.

Perhaps there is a web site called butcheryourbike.com?

This WAS a 86 honda CMX450C Rebel (660 miles!) that another novice thought he was going to adapt into a suzuki frame. I assume because he had no title for the Rebel. I bought it for parts.

old_kaw wrote: The gsxr front end is a mismatch for a little bike. It will not fit and is heavy. Cut up the frame? What for? it's your bike. I've seen it done in the past.
You have training / experience in ? The members on KzR give some solid advice. You aren't going to get many replies here that condone butchering that kaw.

No training...yet. Haha. Foolish optimism, if you hadn't already guessed. The only reason for suggesting a gsxr front end was because of the kit that Cognition Moto have for sale. Looks wise, I like spoke wheels and the dual front disc - although I have this option as my stock forks have mounting points on both legs.

The reason for butchering the subframe was to replicate what the kz400 has with that 'flat line' that runs from the bottom of the fuel tank along the subframe. The LTD doesn't have this nice clean line. Plus, redoing the subframe would allow for a lightweight one to be built (fitting in with my ?silly? ideas)

If you go the upside down forks route, you'll probably have to swap the entire front end, including the wheel & brake calipers. Plus you'll have to figure out what to do about a headlight & meters as the 440 stuff won't be a direct fit to the donor triple. Then the rear wheel becomes problematic, because you'll want it to match, but most modern motorcycles have a Rr disk brake & the swing arm is completely different.
All Balls Racing has a fork conversion chart that shows what triples can be mounted to your frame.
keep in mind that the donor steering stem will most likely have to be cut & machined.

If you keep the stock forks but want dual disk, the 1980 KZ440-A1 Ltd has the same LH caliper as a number of dual disk models, so assuming yours is a 440-A1 or has the same stuff as the A1, you might be able to get a RH caliper & disk from one of them that has a dual disk. The diagrams at Partzilla are handy for comparing stuff & the x-ref there is invaluable. Kawasaki.com & other places have the exploded diagrams, but partzilla is by far the easiest to use.

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You mention several times about trying to reduce the weight of the bike, but it sounds like you haven't done much research on how to achieve that goal. I believe you will find that a dual disk GSXR front end will weigh more than the stock KZ400 front end; so trying to make that change (not a minor change) isn't likely to achieve your goal of reducing the weight of the bike. Likewise, cutting and making your own modification to the original frame is very unlikely to shave much weight off the bike. The bike weighs less than 400 pounds in stock trim, so there's not a lot of fat on it. Installing 17" wheels? This will probably result in more, not less, weight because the 17" tires will more than likely be wider and heavier than the stock tires. Overall, I suspect the net result of the changes you mention may increase rather than decrease the bike's weight.

You mention the engine currently doesn't run. Getting that engine running properly should be your first priority before you even consider buying any parts to modify the bike. If you find that the engine has significant problems you will not have spent money on a body parts for a bike that needs a new or rebuilt engine. On the other hand, if you get the engine running well you can ride the bike around a bit to determine what is good and what is not, and that should help you decide where to spend money on changes. Ed

Get it running first. don't do anything extraneous until you know it runs. After that, I would keep it simple. simple & cheap. a 440 won't be worth much whether or not it's stock or heavily modified. DimeCityCycles has seat & frame stuff w pics so you can see what's involved in modifying the frame.




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martin_csr wrote: If you go the upside down forks route, you'll probably have to swap the entire front end, including the wheel & brake calipers. Plus you'll have to figure out what to do about a headlight & meters as the 440 stuff won't be a direct fit to the donor triple. Then the rear wheel becomes problematic, because you'll want it to match, but most modern motorcycles have a Rr disk brake & the swing arm is completely different.
All Balls Racing has a fork conversion chart that shows what triples can be mounted to your frame.
keep in mind that the donor steering stem will most likely have to be cut & machined.

If you keep the stock forks but want dual disk, the 1980 KZ440-A1 Ltd has the same LH caliper as a number of dual disk models, so assuming yours is a 440-A1 or has the same stuff as the A1, you might be able to get a RH caliper & disk from one of them that has a dual disk. The diagrams at Partzilla are handy for comparing stuff & the x-ref there is invaluable. Kawasaki.com & other places have the exploded diagrams, but partzilla is by far the easiest to use.

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I've been looking on the All Balls chart. It's a handy tool. Thanks for the heads up about Partzilla. I'll check it out.

Regarding the bike having a rear disc - I'm happy for it to stay as a drum. It's the one part of the bike I'm not sure I could be bothered (for want of a better word) to deal with fabricating a rear disc setup.

650ed wrote: You mention several times about trying to reduce the weight of the bike, but it sounds like you haven't done much research on how to achieve that goal. I believe you will find that a dual disk GSXR front end will weigh more than the stock KZ400 front end; so trying to make that change (not a minor change) isn't likely to achieve your goal of reducing the weight of the bike. Likewise, cutting and making your own modification to the original frame is very unlikely to shave much weight off the bike. The bike weighs less than 400 pounds in stock trim, so there's not a lot of fat on it. Installing 17" wheels? This will probably result in more, not less, weight because the 17" tires will more than likely be wider and heavier than the stock tires. Overall, I suspect the net result of the changes you mention may increase rather than decrease the bike's weight.

You mention the engine currently doesn't run. Getting that engine running properly should be your first priority before you even consider buying any parts to modify the bike. If you find that the engine has significant problems you will not have spent money on a body parts for a bike that needs a new or rebuilt engine. On the other hand, if you get the engine running well you can ride the bike around a bit to determine what is good and what is not, and that should help you decide where to spend money on changes. Ed

From what I could find, I'm sure I read the weight difference was negligible. However I can't be certain the person doing the weighing wasn't comparing modern forks with some 36mm diameter stockers rather than the 33's of the KZ440.
I was under the impression as well that the stock mag wheels are heavy, so a loss there could be offset by forks being slightly heavier? Heavier forks wouldn't affect the feel as they would be sprung weight.
I was only thinking of 17inch rims (which I'd get aluminium ones) due to there being a good choice of tyres for that size.

It might sound mad, but I'm a sucker for symmetry, hence wanting a dual disc front end.

After going out and looking more closely at mine, the only even slightly significant weight loss you could gain may be going to an aluminum spoked rim (with single rotor or drum possibly) which is the only actual mod I've looked at doing to mine. There may be a few oz to gain from swapping your taillight and turn signals to something smaller, or changing the seat to something lighter? Like 650ed said- there's little to no fat on these bikes to begin with and the sub 400lb weight is one reason I picked the bike originally. For the total weight loss you could achieve modding the bike without butchering it, it would probably be easier to lose more by just going on a diet yourself (not saying you're fat lol). Maybe dump the rear pegs and plan on riding single? There's probably a pound between the 2. I'm really interested to see where this thread goes because I've been contemplating doing the rim swap for quite some time and still haven't been able to convince myself the weight loss would be worth it.

I reckon youre getting ahead of yourself here. a bit Get the bike running right,serviced,etc and spend the summer running it as is. That gives you a bit of experience of riding on the road and gets you familiar with the bike itself. Keeping it running will give you time on the spanners so that if you do decide to chop it youll have had some hands on experience and know a bit more than you do now, have a bit more confidence and know what you can tackle yourself and what you need to farm out to professionals.
As someone pointed out already,riding on the road is very different to riding off road and its not unknown for 'new' riders to scare the shit out of themselves and decide that road riding isnt for them. Or you could have a blast and decide to upgrade to a bigger,faster bike. Unless youre planning on racing the bike,saving weight is the last thing youre going to need to look at.
Ok,thats my tuppence worth.

I'd say you have gotten some really good advice so far. If after getting it running properly you are serious about weight loss, then you should be looking at a custom set of carbon fiber wheels, and engine covers along with replacing the exhaust system , all the fasteners, axles and perhaps engine mounts with custom titanium parts. Yes, it will be expensive.
There is a guy over at the zrxoa who even made a titanium ignition key because it was slightly lighter than the factory key. I bet he would even make one for you for a few dollars.