An explanation of these cafe racers.

Wildh2oskier wrote:

Now that would be cool. Kind of like this one
kzrider.com/index.php?option=com_ponygal...6&func=detail&id=432

Ya, kinda like that one. Now your'e making me think that I need an old twin to play around withB)

No doubt about it, Sheik, that's cafe fer shure and a fantastic job into the bargain. Beautiful work and I'll bet it goes as good as/better than it looks. Having built up basket cases, I can sure appreciate what you've done. She's a stunner !!!

hey guys thanks for the kind words. it's hard to beleive it's actually done and it all works, and basically on the first try. it starts, idles, pull hard to 10 grand, i just am so pleased with my first rebuild i can't stop thinking about what to do next. it's weird to not have a laundry list of todo's in my wallet and 3 stops to make each night on the way home to source taps, dril bits, nuts and bolts, fuel line, safety wire, cotter pins, etc...

I can't wait to get it up to Vintage days this weekend. I started riding my modern bikes to vintage days and camping just to be there and get signed up for demo rides each morning. Seeing and mostly hearing all the old bikes eventually got to me and I decided to do a frame off, resoration level quality job but into build a replica road racer, but I wanted it to be on a big bike that would have over 100 hp. This baby is a beast, it really pulls hard, it stops, it handles, i've got the tires down to about a 1/8" chicken strip and cornering and rolling on all that power, it really does feel composed, I don't feel like i've got my hand around the neck of a rattlesnake as I thought it might be.

i think my frame chops and gussets, suspension work, brake work, radial tire conversion, and motor work are all in harmony and it's a very easy bike to ride hard even in the tight SE ohio twisties. the only thing stock in the braking system are the caliper bodies. all new pistons, rotors turned, all calipers fully rebuild with rebuild kits, seals, etc, SS HEL lines, and a CBR954 rear master and a 01 ZX9 front master.

ok enough rambling answering questions nobody asked, i'm just really pleased with it all, and it's 5PM so...I...am...outta' here...

caffcruiser wrote:

If they were the same thing they wouldn't have different names.

That's like saying hot rods and street rods are the same thing.

I really like the looks of these bikes. However, I know nothing about them. Could you or would you tell me the difference? IE: Cafe Racer/Street Bike.
Thank you

hwms wrote:

caffcruiser wrote:

If they were the same thing they wouldn't have different names.

That's like saying hot rods and street rods are the same thing.

I really like the looks of these bikes. However, I know nothing about them. Could you or would you tell me the difference? IE: Cafe Racer/Street Bike.
Thank you

No-one said that a cafe racer and a street bike aren't the same thing.... cafe racers are a kind of street bike.

My point was that cafe racers and streetfighters are NOT the same thing. If they were, they wouldn't have different names.

Sure, one is a progression of the other, cafe's being the predecessor to the modern streetfighter in that they were the original homebuilt performance machine for street riding, and streetfighters are the modern counterpart, but they are not the same.

That's why I used the hot rod/street rod analogy. similar? Sure, but far from the same.

Post edited by: caffcruiser, at: 2007/07/23 18:38

caffcruiser wrote:

hwms wrote:

caffcruiser wrote:

If they were the same thing they wouldn't have different names.

That's like saying hot rods and street rods are the same thing.

I really like the looks of these bikes. However, I know nothing about them. Could you or would you tell me the difference? IE: Cafe Racer/Street Bike.
Thank you

No-one said that a cafe racer and a street bike aren't the same thing.... cafe racers are a kind of street bike.

My point was that cafe racers and streetfighters are NOT the same thing. If they were, they wouldn't have different names.

Sure, one is a progression of the other, cafe's being the predecessor to the modern streetfighter in that they were the original homebuilt performance machine for street riding, and streetfighters are the modern counterpart, but they are not the same.

That's why I used the hot rod/street rod analogy. similar? Sure, but far from the same.<br><br>Post edited by: caffcruiser, at: 2007/07/23 18:38

Please forgive me for the typo. I meant to type "Cafe Racer/Streetfighter

caffcruiser wrote:

hwms wrote:

caffcruiser wrote:

If they were the same thing they wouldn't have different names.

That's like saying hot rods and street rods are the same thing.

I really like the looks of these bikes. However, I know nothing about them. Could you or would you tell me the difference? IE: Cafe Racer/Street Bike.
Thank you

No-one said that a cafe racer and a street bike aren't the same thing.... cafe racers are a kind of street bike.

My point was that cafe racers and streetfighters are NOT the same thing. If they were, they wouldn't have different names.

Sure, one is a progression of the other, cafe's being the predecessor to the modern streetfighter in that they were the original homebuilt performance machine for street riding, and streetfighters are the modern counterpart, but they are not the same.

That's why I used the hot rod/street rod analogy. similar? Sure, but far from the same.<br><br>Post edited by: caffcruiser, at: 2007/07/23 18:38

Please forgive me for the typo. I meant to type "Cafe Racer/Streetfighter

Cafe racer: Customized bike, performance minded, based on a vintage streetbike.

Streetfighter: Customized bike, performance minded, based on a sportbike.

Cafe: Triton, traditionally THE cafe bike to have....



Streetfighter: Gixxer based... most common base for a run of the mill fighter.



Obviously you can see where I was going when I said that they differ significantly in styles, parts, etc.

*****I'm sure some will post pics of KZ based fighters , and though they ARE cool bikes, it's arguable that they are NOT traditional streetfighters. I post the above pic due to the fact that there is NO argument against it's nature as a traditional streetfighter.

Post edited by: caffcruiser, at: 2007/07/23 20:01

Post edited by: caffcruiser, at: 2007/07/23 20:01

caffcruiser wrote:

Cafe racer: Customized bike, performance minded, based on a vintage streetbike.

Streetfighter: Customized bike, performance minded, based on a sportbike.

Cafe: Triton, traditionally THE cafe bike to have....

Streetfighter: Gixxer based... most common base for a run of the mill fighter.

Obviously you can see where I was going when I said that they differ significantly in styles, parts, etc.

*****I'm sure some will post pics of KZ based fighters , and though they ARE cool bikes, it's arguable that they are NOT traditional streetfighters. I post the above pic due to the fact that there is NO argument against it's nature as a traditional streetfighter.

Post edited by: caffcruiser, at: 2007/07/23 20:01<br><br>Post edited by: caffcruiser, at: 2007/07/23 20:01

That is exactly what I mean by the "Showbike Streetfighters". I've built a Triton and I've built a Streetfighter - same thing, older technology / newer technology. That example you posted of a Streetfighter is not the main stream rideable Streetfighter. It's a stupid looking, completely missed the point Streetfighter styled magazine centerfold/showbike even though it is in what appears to be maybe a Spondon frame.
GSXR is the traditional Streetfighter? Streetfighters were built before there were GSXRs, just didn't have a misinformation highway to post them on or magazines to advertize companies doing "styling" work.

Post edited by: Fossil, at: 2007/07/23 20:29

Caffcruiser,
No offense intended, but there is no distinction between Cafe and Streetfighter other than the timeframe. To say a cafe racer is based on a "vintage" steetbike and a streetfighter is based on a "sportbike" ignores the indisputable fact that the "vintage" bikes were not vintage when cafe racers first appeared. In fact, they were in many cases the most advanced "sportbikes" of their day. It stands to reason then that today's "sportbikes" are tomorrow's "vintage" bikes. Given your definitions, today's "streetfighters" will miraculously become "cafe" racers ten or more years from now when the new generation sportbikes make today's machines vintage. I can just see our grandchildren laughing at our generation's "streetfighters" as being primitive machines that can't hold a candle to their "Ultrascooters" or whatever name they choose to call their version of the cafe racer. Ed

Like I said, you can disagree all you want you guys.

Fact of the matter is that Cafe Racers were bikes traditionally popular and designed based on vintage bikes. By vintage I mean NOW vintage. Don't argue common sense semantics.

"There is no distinction between Cafe and Streetfighter other than the timeframe."



That's like saying that there's no distinction between a traditionally built 1934 Ford Pickup hot rod and a Prowler... "other than the timeframe". :rollseyes:

Not true at all. There are MANY distinctions. There's no such thing as a checklist definition of what "makes" a custom bike fit into a certain genre, therefore the definitions are based on the status quo of the genre itself.

Cafe racers, according to the status quo aesthetics, AND traditional builds:

-Are based on vintage bikes.
-Commonly used polished tanks.
-Were designed to replicate the racebikes of the day.
-Were stripped for light weight.
-Rode with a crouched posture, a' la the racebikes of the day.

Streetfighters, on the other hand, according to the status quo (For those who want to argue just to argue, status quo means "most... not ALL"...)

-Are custom builds based on sportbikes (Commonly being post 1985, as the 1985 GSXR is commonly referred to in motorcycle history as the birth of the sportbikes)
-Aren't commonly covered with a polished up tank.
-Are NOT designed to replicate racebikes of modern day.
-Are NOT customized to be light weight (as they already ARE light weight!)
-Do NOT ride with a crouched posture similar to modern race bikes.

There's just a few differences.

And sure, you can say they are "similar" because of this and that, but its just not a fact.

Facts are that the cafe racers in their prime were built with the best parts out there by their owners as a form of expression, and a personalized example of what the "perfect bike" should be. If this is what makes them the same, then so are bobbers, choppers, flat trackers, rat bikes, race replicas, nakeds.... the list goes on.

Just because the kids then utilized the best of what was available doesn't make them the same as what's available now. Dream all you want, but a KZ is NOT a sportbike comparitively. For christs sakes, they're loosely based on the british cruisers that oversold MOST bikes prior to them.

Now, if KZ's were designed to replicate a Manx, or a Vincent, that'd be a different story.

FOSSIL:

Like it or not, you are spewing opinions.

Fact of the matter is though that Streetfighters are nothing more than Choppers with perfmance in mind. :lol: One of the real BASIS behind the "scene" IS the appearance of the bikes. The showability if you will.

That's why LSL makes so many "ooooh ahhhh" looking parts, and the tailpieces and tanks that are commonly utilized are so aesthetic.

There's a market for streetfighters, and anything with a market makes money. That's (unfortunately) what it seems to be fizzling down to lately. Now companies like Ducati, MV, KTM, Triumph sell "streetfighter styled nakeds". It's sad.

And you can call the bike stupid, disgusting, etc.... unfortunately for your OPINION, the status quo of streetfighter fans around the world disagree. Don't belive me? Show me how many pieces of shit with horrible paint jobs and no glam parts you see in the streetfighter mags/websites.

I expected disagreement, so I don't really care.

Honestly I'm not all about labeling anything. Labels are for people who are too uncreative to just call their bike "mine."

BTW: I'm not speaking opinion on this stuff, just pointing out common sense differences. I'm pretty sick of both cafe racers AND streetfighters to be honest.:sick: Then again, it's probably just the "cultures" that come with them. In fact, I'm gonna change my screenname to "Hatesmotorcyclecultures" and call my bike a "rock climber" when people ask what it is.

Post edited by: caffcruiser, at: 2007/07/23 22:20

Post edited by: caffcruiser, at: 2007/07/23 22:22

caffcruiser wrote:

Like I said, you can disagree all you want you guys.

Fact of the matter is that Cafe Racers were bikes traditionally popular and designed based on vintage bikes. By vintage I mean NOW vintage. Don't argue common sense semantics.

"There is no distinction between Cafe and Streetfighter other than the timeframe."



That's like saying that there's no distinction between a traditionally built 1934 Ford Pickup hot rod and a Prowler... "other than the timeframe". :rollseyes:

Not true at all. There are MANY distinctions. There's no such thing as a checklist definition of what "makes" a custom bike fit into a certain genre, therefore the definitions are based on the status quo of the genre itself.

Cafe racers, according to the status quo aesthetics, AND traditional builds:

-Are based on vintage bikes.
-Commonly used polished tanks.
-Were designed to replicate the racebikes of the day.
-Were stripped for light weight.
-Rode with a crouched posture, a' la the racebikes of the day.

Streetfighters, on the other hand, according to the status quo (For those who want to argue just to argue, status quo means "most... not ALL"...)

-Are custom builds based on sportbikes (Commonly being post 1985, as the 1985 GSXR is commonly referred to in motorcycle history as the birth of the sportbikes)
-Aren't commonly covered with a polished up tank.
-Are NOT designed to replicate racebikes of modern day.
-Are NOT customized to be light weight (as they already ARE light weight!)
-Do NOT ride with a crouched posture similar to modern race bikes.

There's just a few differences.

And sure, you can say they are "similar" because of this and that, but its just not a fact.

Facts are that the cafe racers in their prime were built with the best parts out there by their owners as a form of expression, and a personalized example of what the "perfect bike" should be. If this is what makes them the same, then so are bobbers, choppers, flat trackers, rat bikes, race replicas, nakeds.... the list goes on.

Just because the kids then utilized the best of what was available doesn't make them the same as what's available now. Dream all you want, but a KZ is NOT a sportbike comparitively. For christs sakes, they're loosely based on the british cruisers that oversold MOST bikes prior to them.

Now, if KZ's were designed to replicate a Manx, or a Vincent, that'd be a different story.

FOSSIL:

Like it or not, you are spewing opinions.

Fact of the matter is though that Streetfighters are nothing more than Choppers with perfmance in mind. :lol: One of the real BASIS behind the "scene" IS the appearance of the bikes. The showability if you will.

That's why LSL makes so many "ooooh ahhhh" looking parts, and the tailpieces and tanks that are commonly utilized are so aesthetic.

There's a market for streetfighters, and anything with a market makes money. That's (unfortunately) what it seems to be fizzling down to lately. Now companies like Ducati, MV, KTM, Triumph sell "streetfighter styled nakeds". It's sad.

And you can call the bike stupid, disgusting, etc.... unfortunately for your OPINION, the status quo of streetfighter fans around the world disagree. Don't belive me? Show me how many pieces of shit with horrible paint jobs and no glam parts you see in the streetfighter mags/websites.

I expected disagreement, so I don't really care.

Honestly I'm not all about labeling anything. Labels are for people who are too uncreative to just call their bike "mine."

BTW: I'm not speaking opinion on this stuff, just pointing out common sense differences. I'm pretty sick of both cafe racers AND streetfighters to be honest.:sick: Then again, it's probably just the "cultures" that come with them. In fact, I'm gonna change my screenname to "Hatesmotorcyclecultures" and call my bike a "rock climber" when people ask what it is.

Post edited by: caffcruiser, at: 2007/07/23 22:20<br><br>Post edited by: caffcruiser, at: 2007/07/23 22:22

Sorry I've lived and built it since I was 19, that's over 35 years. My opinions are based on experience not Google and magazines. Like everything else, cafe racers and streetfighters have been commercialized. The flash bikes do not represent the core.

Post edited by: Fossil, at: 2007/07/23 22:30