KZ650 Sleeper Build (KZ1000 engine transplant)
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Re: KZ650 Sleeper Build (KZ1000 engine transplant)
31 Aug 2024 16:32
Nice work on the porting and manifolds, doesn't look like there is much left for the manifolds to seal against (pictures may be deceptive) will you need "sealant" ?
1982 KZ1000 Ltd
www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/617631...-82-begins?start=192
kzrider.com/filebase-alias?view=download...d-fault-diagnosis&ca
www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/617631...-82-begins?start=192
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Re: KZ650 Sleeper Build (KZ1000 engine transplant)
31 Aug 2024 16:33
Looks like he opened the ports pretty good. Wonder how they'll flow?
Steve
Steve
Z1b1000 1975 Z1b
kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/598262-kz-...-will-it-live#672882
kzrider.com/forum/2-engine/597654-poser?start=240#704229
kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/598262-kz-...-will-it-live#672882
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Re: KZ650 Sleeper Build (KZ1000 engine transplant)
01 Sep 2024 07:58 - 01 Sep 2024 08:04
The port job was not too aggressive and there was plenty of face left to seal on. The rubbers were sealed with grey gasket maker similar to 3Bond.
The head was give a street style port job probably one notch down from a drag race setup. It was flow checked on a Superflow 110 flow bench.
It flowed 96CFM intake and 74CFM exhaust @ 10" of water which I was told is similar to what he does for a road race engine. The valves are oversize 37/31 mm and the cams are .420" lift Russ Collins. It flows more than a stock GPZ1100 head that has bigger valves.
The head was give a street style port job probably one notch down from a drag race setup. It was flow checked on a Superflow 110 flow bench.
It flowed 96CFM intake and 74CFM exhaust @ 10" of water which I was told is similar to what he does for a road race engine. The valves are oversize 37/31 mm and the cams are .420" lift Russ Collins. It flows more than a stock GPZ1100 head that has bigger valves.
1978 KZ650B2 w 1197cc Z1 engine
1977 KZ650B1 w 750cc Spectre engine
1979 KZ650C3 w 831cc Hot Rod engine
1978 KZ650C2 w 762cc DFI project
1977 KZ650C1 stock restoration project
1978 KZ650B2 modified project
1978 KZ650B2 Injected Drag 831cc
1980 Z1 Custom Frame Drag 1327cc
1981 Z50R Honda tow bike
1977 KZ650B1 w 750cc Spectre engine
1979 KZ650C3 w 831cc Hot Rod engine
1978 KZ650C2 w 762cc DFI project
1977 KZ650C1 stock restoration project
1978 KZ650B2 modified project
1978 KZ650B2 Injected Drag 831cc
1980 Z1 Custom Frame Drag 1327cc
1981 Z50R Honda tow bike
Last edit: 01 Sep 2024 08:04 by Injected. Reason: info
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Re: KZ650 Sleeper Build (KZ1000 engine transplant)
01 Sep 2024 08:20
Too bad Larry's no longer with us. I followed his suggestions and Mine works great.
www.facebook.com/cavanaughracingheads
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Z1b1000 1975 Z1b
kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/598262-kz-...-will-it-live#672882
kzrider.com/forum/2-engine/597654-poser?start=240#704229
kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/598262-kz-...-will-it-live#672882
kzrider.com/forum/2-engine/597654-poser?start=240#704229
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Re: KZ650 Sleeper Build (KZ1000 engine transplant)
01 Sep 2024 12:33
That chart works out to 89CFM @ 10" at .400" lift, so fairly typical for a high performance street engine. Stock GPZ1100 head comes in at 84CFM @. 500" lift.
My guy is a Canadian version of Larry C, and Larry asked about my guys work a few times when we emailed back and forth.
The KZ head on my 1327 drag engine is ported to 110CFM even though it the smaller 37/31 valves. Its still not opened up on the intake like some I have seen that use epoxy or end plates, it still has some meat to seal the rubbers
Here is the intake side before the rubbers got put on.
You don't really have to have GPZ head to make some decent flow numbers, but you do have to take pounds of aluminum out of a KZ head to get similar results.
My guy is a Canadian version of Larry C, and Larry asked about my guys work a few times when we emailed back and forth.
The KZ head on my 1327 drag engine is ported to 110CFM even though it the smaller 37/31 valves. Its still not opened up on the intake like some I have seen that use epoxy or end plates, it still has some meat to seal the rubbers
Here is the intake side before the rubbers got put on.
You don't really have to have GPZ head to make some decent flow numbers, but you do have to take pounds of aluminum out of a KZ head to get similar results.
1978 KZ650B2 w 1197cc Z1 engine
1977 KZ650B1 w 750cc Spectre engine
1979 KZ650C3 w 831cc Hot Rod engine
1978 KZ650C2 w 762cc DFI project
1977 KZ650C1 stock restoration project
1978 KZ650B2 modified project
1978 KZ650B2 Injected Drag 831cc
1980 Z1 Custom Frame Drag 1327cc
1981 Z50R Honda tow bike
1977 KZ650B1 w 750cc Spectre engine
1979 KZ650C3 w 831cc Hot Rod engine
1978 KZ650C2 w 762cc DFI project
1977 KZ650C1 stock restoration project
1978 KZ650B2 modified project
1978 KZ650B2 Injected Drag 831cc
1980 Z1 Custom Frame Drag 1327cc
1981 Z50R Honda tow bike
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Re: KZ650 Sleeper Build (KZ1000 engine transplant)
01 Sep 2024 13:19
1982 KZ1000 Ltd
www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/617631...-82-begins?start=192
kzrider.com/filebase-alias?view=download...d-fault-diagnosis&ca
www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/617631...-82-begins?start=192
kzrider.com/filebase-alias?view=download...d-fault-diagnosis&ca
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Re: KZ650 Sleeper Build (KZ1000 engine transplant)
01 Sep 2024 14:09 - 01 Sep 2024 14:10
I did not get very far on this cylinder head assembly today.
I realized when I put the light checker springs together that the intake valves need the keeper grooves re-positioned below there current position as the tip is .020" below the keeper tops. The intake and exhaust valves just happen to be the exact same length and tips are in the same position relative to the cam CL (valve faces sunk symmetrical on both sides) I can't move forward without addressing this situation, and I don't know why I did not see this before! Just a small hiccup.
I did install the exhaust studs and fixed up some bolts for the cam caps. Installed the cam gears on the cams and tach gear on the head, small stuff like that was addressed. I also pulled together all the parts to assemble the head properly.
I realized when I put the light checker springs together that the intake valves need the keeper grooves re-positioned below there current position as the tip is .020" below the keeper tops. The intake and exhaust valves just happen to be the exact same length and tips are in the same position relative to the cam CL (valve faces sunk symmetrical on both sides) I can't move forward without addressing this situation, and I don't know why I did not see this before! Just a small hiccup.
I did install the exhaust studs and fixed up some bolts for the cam caps. Installed the cam gears on the cams and tach gear on the head, small stuff like that was addressed. I also pulled together all the parts to assemble the head properly.
1978 KZ650B2 w 1197cc Z1 engine
1977 KZ650B1 w 750cc Spectre engine
1979 KZ650C3 w 831cc Hot Rod engine
1978 KZ650C2 w 762cc DFI project
1977 KZ650C1 stock restoration project
1978 KZ650B2 modified project
1978 KZ650B2 Injected Drag 831cc
1980 Z1 Custom Frame Drag 1327cc
1981 Z50R Honda tow bike
1977 KZ650B1 w 750cc Spectre engine
1979 KZ650C3 w 831cc Hot Rod engine
1978 KZ650C2 w 762cc DFI project
1977 KZ650C1 stock restoration project
1978 KZ650B2 modified project
1978 KZ650B2 Injected Drag 831cc
1980 Z1 Custom Frame Drag 1327cc
1981 Z50R Honda tow bike
Last edit: 01 Sep 2024 14:10 by Injected. Reason: sp
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Re: KZ650 Sleeper Build (KZ1000 engine transplant)
02 Sep 2024 10:44 - 02 Sep 2024 10:44
I just went out and double checked the intake measurements, then setup the exhaust side to check if those valves need tipped. Found out the exhaust side valves are OK as is, and they can be assembled with shims around the 270 range.
On the intake side if I was to skim enough off the collet tops to get .010" below the tip of the valve, the valve tip would be .010" below the recess in the retainer and the shim would be sitting on the retainer and not touching the valve tip.
I think I ether need some collets where the radius is closer to the top instead of the middle (stock units) or I need to grind another groove on the valve stems lower than the current groove (done this before) I will get in touch with the guy who did my valve job and sold me the intake valves in question, we will work out some kind of solution to get me back on track.
On the intake side if I was to skim enough off the collet tops to get .010" below the tip of the valve, the valve tip would be .010" below the recess in the retainer and the shim would be sitting on the retainer and not touching the valve tip.
I think I ether need some collets where the radius is closer to the top instead of the middle (stock units) or I need to grind another groove on the valve stems lower than the current groove (done this before) I will get in touch with the guy who did my valve job and sold me the intake valves in question, we will work out some kind of solution to get me back on track.
1978 KZ650B2 w 1197cc Z1 engine
1977 KZ650B1 w 750cc Spectre engine
1979 KZ650C3 w 831cc Hot Rod engine
1978 KZ650C2 w 762cc DFI project
1977 KZ650C1 stock restoration project
1978 KZ650B2 modified project
1978 KZ650B2 Injected Drag 831cc
1980 Z1 Custom Frame Drag 1327cc
1981 Z50R Honda tow bike
1977 KZ650B1 w 750cc Spectre engine
1979 KZ650C3 w 831cc Hot Rod engine
1978 KZ650C2 w 762cc DFI project
1977 KZ650C1 stock restoration project
1978 KZ650B2 modified project
1978 KZ650B2 Injected Drag 831cc
1980 Z1 Custom Frame Drag 1327cc
1981 Z50R Honda tow bike
Last edit: 02 Sep 2024 10:44 by Injected. Reason: info
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Re: KZ650 Sleeper Build (KZ1000 engine transplant)
09 Sep 2024 06:57
The guy who did my cylinder head has been on vacation, he has a cottage up North and usually spends a few weeks up there then brings his boat back to home. This seems to be open ended, so no idea when he will be back but I did leave a message about my valve groove issue.
I could cut new grooves myself but I figure this is his oversight so he should solve it.
While I am waiting I figure I need to check piston to valve clearance as it may be a issue with the cams I have. At .420" lift I am not sure if the valve pockets in the pistons are deep enough, the other issue is the head has been surfaced by a unknown amount. I do have slotted cam sprockets but that is not always enough to get you out of a bad situation.
I am going to bench test with some modeling clay but need to make some fixturing to hold a piston to the head at gasket height. I will use the stud holes to bolt some flat rails then cross drill to hold the piston pin. I will cut some aluminum strips at the gasket thickness to keep the piston top from rocking. I have some light springs to rotate the cams over by hand to compress the clay.
I have only ever done this with the engine in the frame so I will see how it works out.
I could cut new grooves myself but I figure this is his oversight so he should solve it.
While I am waiting I figure I need to check piston to valve clearance as it may be a issue with the cams I have. At .420" lift I am not sure if the valve pockets in the pistons are deep enough, the other issue is the head has been surfaced by a unknown amount. I do have slotted cam sprockets but that is not always enough to get you out of a bad situation.
I am going to bench test with some modeling clay but need to make some fixturing to hold a piston to the head at gasket height. I will use the stud holes to bolt some flat rails then cross drill to hold the piston pin. I will cut some aluminum strips at the gasket thickness to keep the piston top from rocking. I have some light springs to rotate the cams over by hand to compress the clay.
I have only ever done this with the engine in the frame so I will see how it works out.
1978 KZ650B2 w 1197cc Z1 engine
1977 KZ650B1 w 750cc Spectre engine
1979 KZ650C3 w 831cc Hot Rod engine
1978 KZ650C2 w 762cc DFI project
1977 KZ650C1 stock restoration project
1978 KZ650B2 modified project
1978 KZ650B2 Injected Drag 831cc
1980 Z1 Custom Frame Drag 1327cc
1981 Z50R Honda tow bike
1977 KZ650B1 w 750cc Spectre engine
1979 KZ650C3 w 831cc Hot Rod engine
1978 KZ650C2 w 762cc DFI project
1977 KZ650C1 stock restoration project
1978 KZ650B2 modified project
1978 KZ650B2 Injected Drag 831cc
1980 Z1 Custom Frame Drag 1327cc
1981 Z50R Honda tow bike
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Re: KZ650 Sleeper Build (KZ1000 engine transplant)
09 Sep 2024 11:54 - 09 Sep 2024 11:55
My guy called me back today, I am going to his shop in the next few days.
He suggested a couple of things to correct the intake valve issue. He says using titanium retainer where the recess is deeper will give extra clearance. He happens to have 4 sitting there from a full set with matching shortened keepers that I can use. He is pretty sure this will solve the issue.
He also mentioned boring the stock 650 retainer recess but that would be only as a last resort.
He suggested a couple of things to correct the intake valve issue. He says using titanium retainer where the recess is deeper will give extra clearance. He happens to have 4 sitting there from a full set with matching shortened keepers that I can use. He is pretty sure this will solve the issue.
He also mentioned boring the stock 650 retainer recess but that would be only as a last resort.
1978 KZ650B2 w 1197cc Z1 engine
1977 KZ650B1 w 750cc Spectre engine
1979 KZ650C3 w 831cc Hot Rod engine
1978 KZ650C2 w 762cc DFI project
1977 KZ650C1 stock restoration project
1978 KZ650B2 modified project
1978 KZ650B2 Injected Drag 831cc
1980 Z1 Custom Frame Drag 1327cc
1981 Z50R Honda tow bike
1977 KZ650B1 w 750cc Spectre engine
1979 KZ650C3 w 831cc Hot Rod engine
1978 KZ650C2 w 762cc DFI project
1977 KZ650C1 stock restoration project
1978 KZ650B2 modified project
1978 KZ650B2 Injected Drag 831cc
1980 Z1 Custom Frame Drag 1327cc
1981 Z50R Honda tow bike
Last edit: 09 Sep 2024 11:55 by Injected. Reason: sp
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Re: KZ650 Sleeper Build (KZ1000 engine transplant)
11 Sep 2024 09:24
Went to my engine guys shop this morning and resolved the intake valve issue.
He had a bunch of miss matched titanium retainers that we sorted thru. They are about .130" shorter in height that stock 650 retainers but the recess where the shim sits is about the same as stock 650.
Since they are shorter, the angle where the keeper sits makes them give a different stack height. He tuned them all to use a 220 shim and there is still room to peel more off the keeper tops if necessary to make adjustments.
He had a bunch of miss matched titanium retainers that we sorted thru. They are about .130" shorter in height that stock 650 retainers but the recess where the shim sits is about the same as stock 650.
Since they are shorter, the angle where the keeper sits makes them give a different stack height. He tuned them all to use a 220 shim and there is still room to peel more off the keeper tops if necessary to make adjustments.
1978 KZ650B2 w 1197cc Z1 engine
1977 KZ650B1 w 750cc Spectre engine
1979 KZ650C3 w 831cc Hot Rod engine
1978 KZ650C2 w 762cc DFI project
1977 KZ650C1 stock restoration project
1978 KZ650B2 modified project
1978 KZ650B2 Injected Drag 831cc
1980 Z1 Custom Frame Drag 1327cc
1981 Z50R Honda tow bike
1977 KZ650B1 w 750cc Spectre engine
1979 KZ650C3 w 831cc Hot Rod engine
1978 KZ650C2 w 762cc DFI project
1977 KZ650C1 stock restoration project
1978 KZ650B2 modified project
1978 KZ650B2 Injected Drag 831cc
1980 Z1 Custom Frame Drag 1327cc
1981 Z50R Honda tow bike
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Re: KZ650 Sleeper Build (KZ1000 engine transplant)
11 Sep 2024 09:29
1982 KZ1000 Ltd
www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/617631...-82-begins?start=192
kzrider.com/filebase-alias?view=download...d-fault-diagnosis&ca
www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/617631...-82-begins?start=192
kzrider.com/filebase-alias?view=download...d-fault-diagnosis&ca
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