TOPIC:

Webbie1 wrote:

dpivas7 wrote: It's a national database called the National Crime Information Center (NCIC). It's run by the FBI I think.

So if it doesn't show up in there, it basically doesn't EXIST and there's no way to get the Vermont registration?

Warner

That was my experience based on bike being previously registered and titled to the incorrect VIN.

dpivas7 wrote:

Webbie1 wrote:

dpivas7 wrote: It's a national database called the National Crime Information Center (NCIC). It's run by the FBI I think.

So if it doesn't show up in there, it basically doesn't EXIST and there's no way to get the Vermont registration?

Warner

That was my experience based on bike being previously registered and titled to the incorrect VIN.

Well, that would suck for sure. I have a photo of the VIN, and I know my friend's last name and I'm entering them correctly on the Wisconsin DMV site, but it doesn't find it. I even tried common typos that may have been made. No go. I'm not sure if it's because Wisconsin blew everything away that hadn't been registered for a while, or what.

Warner

dpivas7 wrote: It's a national database called the National Crime Information Center (NCIC). It's run by the FBI I think.

I think that's the one the MSHP uses. It's national database as stated for law enforcement. I used the National Insurance Crime Bureau to check all of the bikes I titled. It will not, however tell if there is a lien on the bike. The state that it is registered in will have the lien on file with the title.

I had to furninsh the VIN of the donor bike for the Honda Rebel that I rescued since I changed the engine. (2 trips to Jefferson City) Once I gave the state trooper the VIN for the parts bike, and it showed up with the engine number in the data base, the trooper pencil whipped that 555 form with no hesitation. (it was refused before)



Here is the National Insurance Crime Bureau 's website. It will show if it was reported stolen / not recovered.

www.nicb.org/vincheck

Keep in mind that the VIN STILL needs to be verified by a state inspection station OR a local law enforcement officer on an official form. Here in MO the DOR 555 form can also be used to verify the VIN number. There may be others, since the 555 costs $35 bucks.. Some may be free printable forms, but that all depends upon what Vermont will accept.

Webbie1 wrote:

dpivas7 wrote: It's a national database called the National Crime Information Center (NCIC). It's run by the FBI I think.

So if it doesn't show up in there, it basically doesn't EXIST and there's no way to get the Vermont registration?
Warner

We checked the VIN on The Wounded Z every which way to Sunday. Called Washington state DMV with the VIN, last-licensed # of the WA plate and the sticker # on the plate from 1986. No records of the bike, PO's name, anything, because WA scrubs records after 20 yrs. (IIRC) of inactivity. We checked every database available to us and, had an old friend who manages a used car dealer branch check also. In most cases the VIN of a '73 Z1 is too short and/or configured wrong to even continue with an online form. The two checks that did complete returned null results.

We had a notarized bill of sale from the seller, showing purchase price, VIN, names & addresses of both buyer & seller, etc. That is a critical piece of paper for this process to work.

After contacting Bob, he sent us some VT DMV forms. A critical one has to be completed by a local LEO, that confirms the VIN. We contacted the local Sheriff's office, which is responsible for dealing with things like VIN records here in KY. We also obtained a KY title application.

A Sheriffs Deputy arrived at our house, inspected the VIN, then completed & signed his sections of both the VT registration application and the KY title application. Cost for VIN inspection - $15.00. Send completed VT forms & money for VT taxes & processing (~$229.00 IIRC) to VT.

Wait.

Couple weeks later a VT registration comes via USPS. A week after that, a VT plate arrives. At that point we could have ridden the bike legally anywhere in the U.S.

We then took the VT registration docs to our closest KY DMV branch. That is where the only glitch happened. The first chick we talked to was new & didn't understand how to do a title app from a VT registration. She got her supervisor, who showed her the two pages in the KY DMV manual describing how to proceed. Completed that process, paid KY taxes on what KY "thinks" a '73 Z1 is worth ($600.00 ).

Wait.

Couple weeks later a crispy, fresh KY title appears in our mailbox for The Wounded Z.

Done.

Sounds like you have a chance for a nice bike at the right price. If you don't want it because of the lack of a title, we'd be interested in it at that price if it's close enough to KY.


Good Ridin'
slmjim & Z1BEBE

slmjim+Z1BEBE wrote:

Webbie1 wrote:

dpivas7 wrote: It's a national database called the National Crime Information Center (NCIC). It's run by the FBI I think.

So if it doesn't show up in there, it basically doesn't EXIST and there's no way to get the Vermont registration?
Warner

We checked the VIN on The Wounded Z every which way to Sunday. Called Washington state DMV with the VIN, last-licensed # of the WA plate and the sticker # on the plate from 1986. No records of the bike, PO's name, anything, because WA scrubs records after 20 yrs. (IIRC) of inactivity. We checked every database available to us and, had an old friend who manages a used car dealer branch check also. In most cases the VIN of a '73 Z1 is too short and/or configured wrong to even continue with an online form. The two checks that did complete returned null results.

We had a notarized bill of sale from the seller, showing purchase price, VIN, names & addresses of both buyer & seller, etc. That is a critical piece of paper for this process to work.

After contacting Bob, he sent us some VT DMV forms. A critical one has to be completed by a local LEO, that confirms the VIN. We contacted the local Sheriff's office, which is responsible for dealing with things like VIN records here in KY. We also obtained a KY title application.

A Sheriffs Deputy arrived at our house, inspected the VIN, then completed & signed his sections of both the VT registration application and the KY title application. Cost for VIN inspection - $15.00. Send completed VT forms & money for VT taxes & processing (~$229.00 IIRC) to VT.

Wait.

Couple weeks later a VT registration comes via USPS. A week after that, a VT plate arrives. At that point we could have ridden the bike legally anywhere in the U.S.

We then took the VT registration docs to our closest KY DMV branch. That is where the only glitch happened. The first chick we talked to was new & didn't understand how to do a title app from a VT registration. She got her supervisor, who showed her the two pages in the KY DMV manual describing how to proceed. Completed that process, paid KY taxes on what KY "thinks" a '73 Z1 is worth ($600.00 ).

Wait.

Couple weeks later a crispy, fresh KY title appears in our mailbox for The Wounded Z.

Done.

Sounds like you have a chance for a nice bike at the right price. If you don't want it because of the lack of a title, we'd be interested in it at that price if it's close enough to KY.


Good Ridin'
slmjim & Z1BEBE

Now THAT'S the process that I would expect. The cop comes, looks at the VIN to see that it matches the paperwork, says "Yep, that's it" and the rest is just waiting. I don't know how Illinois views the Vermont registration, and Bob hadn't done an Illinois one yet but felt that they almost HAVE to honor it as Vermont doesn't issue titles for bikes over 15 years old. So you think that bike at $550 plus the costs of the title process is still a good deal?

Thanks for your reply,

Warner

Webbie1 wrote: Now THAT'S the process that I would expect. The cop comes, looks at the VIN to see that it matches the paperwork, says "Yep, that's it" and the rest is just waiting. I don't know how Illinois views the Vermont registration, and Bob hadn't done an Illinoi one yet but felt that they almost HAVE to honor it as Vermont doesn't issue titles for bikes over 15 years old. So you think that bike at $550 plus the costs of the title process is still a good deal?

Thanks for your reply,

Warner

In your OP you stated the price as $900.00. Has it now dropped to $550.00?

The question you must answer for yourself is, do you want to do a full resto, or simply make it a nice vintage daily rider?

From the only pic, it looks to be reasonably complete & unmolested. What can't be seen are any hidden problems. Only you doing a due diligence inspection can answer that.

One way to look at it for us is, "can it be replaced with a modern equivalent for anywhere near the price?"

A full resto will set an owner back thousands of dollars. There's a case to be made for that. Doing a good refurb to make it into a clean, unrestored original will cost much much less, and likely be at least as satisfying if you plan on riding it frequently. You'll be lesss likely to stress about things like rain, a boot scuff on a sidecover, things like that. There's a case to be made for that, too.

So, to directly answer your question, we have to look at it as if we were buying it.

At $550.00 plus costs to obtain a KY title, it's a screaming deal, assuming there's no hidden catastrophes. Your costs may be different.

We would get the KY title, do a complete refurb, (not resto), leaving the finishes as is but very clean. Make sure it stops before we make it go with a full brake overhaul, then complete, by-the-book maintenance service - cleaning the carbs if necessary, replacing carb intake manifolds if needed, valve lash, timing, plugs... you know the drill. New rubber. Then joyride it for a few weeks. At this point your & our intentions likely diverge. We'd sell it for a decent profit. We really don't need another bike; we only do Z1's, and mostly just for fun. You might wish to keep it as a long-term daily rider. That being the case, you'd have an overbuilt & understressed, rock-solid motor in a reasonably stiff frame, riding on dated suspension. Only you can answer the question of if the overall experience, comfort, riding position and "fit", is right for you.

If you wish to do a full resto, don't plan on recouping what you spend, especially if you count your time as part of the cost. Do it just for the personal satisfaction of bringing an uncommon bike back to original condition.

Good Ridin'
slmjim & Z1BEBE

slmjim+Z1BEBE wrote:

Webbie1 wrote: Now THAT'S the process that I would expect. The cop comes, looks at the VIN to see that it matches the paperwork, says "Yep, that's it" and the rest is just waiting. I don't know how Illinois views the Vermont registration, and Bob hadn't done an Illinoi one yet but felt that they almost HAVE to honor it as Vermont doesn't issue titles for bikes over 15 years old. So you think that bike at $550 plus the costs of the title process is still a good deal?

Thanks for your reply,

Warner

In your OP you stated the price as $900.00. Has it now dropped to $550.00?

The question you must answer for yourself is, do you want to do a full resto, or simply make it a nice vintage daily rider?

From the only pic, it looks to be reasonably complete & unmolested. What can't be seen are any hidden problems. Only you doing a due diligence inspection can answer that.

One way to look at it for us is, "can it be replaced with a modern equivalent for anywhere near the price?"

A full resto will set an owner back thousands of dollars. There's a case to be made for that. Doing a good refurb to make it into a clean, unrestored original will cost much much less, and likely be at least as satisfying if you plan on riding it frequently. You'll be lesss likely to stress about things like rain, a boot scuff on a sidecover, things like that. There's a case to be made for that, too.

So, to directly answer your question, we have to look at it as if we were buying it.

At $550.00 plus costs to obtain a KY title, it's a screaming deal, assuming there's no hidden catastrophes. Your costs may be different.

We would get the KY title, do a complete refurb, (not resto), leaving the finishes as is but very clean. Make sure it stops before we make it go with a full brake overhaul, then complete, by-the-book maintenance service - cleaning the carbs if necessary, replacing carb intake manifolds if needed, valve lash, timing, plugs... you know the drill. New rubber. Then joyride it for a few weeks. At this point your & our intentions likely diverge. We'd sell it for a decent profit. We really don't need another bike; we only do Z1's, and mostly just for fun. You might wish to keep it as a long-term daily rider. That being the case, you'd have an overbuilt & understressed, rock-solid motor in a reasonably stiff frame, riding on dated suspension. Only you can answer the question of if the overall experience, comfort, riding position and "fit", is right for you.

If you wish to do a full resto, don't plan on recouping what you spend, especially if you count your time as part of the cost. Do it just for the personal satisfaction of bringing an uncommon bike back to original condition.

Good Ridin'
slmjim & Z1BEBE

Excellent advice! Pretty much echoes my thoughts. It dropped to $550 because I've paid him $550 so far and going to tell him that's all I'm willing to pay for it as it sits with no title. I think he'll accept that offer. Then the titling and plating process will cost about $250 so I'll be in $800 titled and licensed. I'm assuming that EVERYTHING needs to be gone through. That was my original thought going in. So it's going to take some work and money, but it'll be a fun project and I already converted my 4th bedroom into a climate controlled work space with a door directly to my garage. So if it's 100 and humid, or 20 below zero outside, I'll be working in something around 70 degrees.

Warner

As I mentioned, the guy with the KZ in question is a co worker, that I carpool to work and back with on Tuesdays and Thursdays. So I ran it by him today, what's involved with the Vermont registration, etc, and considering the work and expense involved, I'd offer him to keep the $550 that I've already paid him and take the bike. He's going to look for the title again and call the Wisconsin DMV again, in hopes of getting someone who can help. I believe that both of those efforts will be fruitless, and that I'll be picking up the bike. The Vermont part of the deal should cost me $48, plus $63 in taxes, plus whatever it costs me to get the VIN verification done. Let's say that totals $150. At that point I'm into the bike $700. Then I'll have to do the title transfer and plates in Illinois, which will be about $150, but I'd have to do that anyway. So basically I'm cutting $200 off the original price to make up for the hassle of getting the title sorted out. I think that's a good deal for me....

Warner

Webbie1 wrote: I already converted my 4th bedroom into a climate controlled work space with a door directly to my garage. So if it's 100 and humid, or 20 below zero outside, I'll be working in something around 70 degrees.

That's the way to do it! One of the POs of my house walled off a 12x20 section of the basement: it has double doors that open to the large concrete pad under the deck, so that's my workshop. Like yours, it's climate-controlled and I can go directly outside to paint something or whatever as needed. There's also a man-door so I can get from one part of the basement to the other.

Now I need to figure out how to store the riding mower and other stuff. Those things are taking up valuable bike and parts space.

AC unit in the detached garage works well too My wife would be un amused if I was causing welding smoke or gasoline smell inside the house.

Nerdy wrote:

Webbie1 wrote: I already converted my 4th bedroom into a climate controlled work space with a door directly to my garage. So if it's 100 and humid, or 20 below zero outside, I'll be working in something around 70 degrees.

That's the way to do it! One of the POs of my house walled off a 12x20 section of the basement: it has double doors that open to the large concrete pad under the deck, so that's my workshop. Like yours, it's climate-controlled and I can go directly outside to paint something or whatever as needed. There's also a man-door so I can get from one part of the basement to the other.

Now I need to figure out how to store the riding mower and other stuff. Those things are taking up valuable bike and parts space.

I hear all of that! Haha. Yeah, I don't need a 4th bedroom. I DO need a climate controlled work / storage area. I had my graphics manager do some artwork for signs to put on my "shop" doors.

Warner

Oldjeep wrote: AC unit in the detached garage works well too My wife would be un amused if I was causing welding smoke or gasoline smell inside the house.

I'm recently divorced and got my own house. As I was using my reciprocating saw to cut a hole in the bedroom wall, I muttered to myself, "I'm adding this to the list of shit you can do when you're single".

Having said that, anything smelly or smoky will be happening in the garage. I was able to purchase a nice compressor from my workplace for cheap (had to buy a single phase motor for it, but that's not too bad) and I built a Harbor Freight blast cabinet with dust deputy (and did the mods to the cabinet) so that will come in handy once I get started, too. There's a sturdy work bench there as well.

Warner



Warner