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TOPIC: KZ1100 Performance Upgrade

KZ1100 Performance Upgrade 25 Jun 2019 04:55 #806386

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Well I got the cam caps all on and threads fixed with Helicoils. Worked great everything is golden, or so I thought.
Still got the noise, sounds worse this time around. Started losing power and struggled to stay at 75 on the highway. So I pulled her over and trailered it home.
Horrible noise and looking when I pulled over I was getting oil bubbling up into the breather filter on my crankcase. Almost sounded like it was coming from the back towards the transmission, but it's hard to say for sure from sticking my head down there while I'm riding on the highway.
Any ideas?
Needless to say I'll be pulling the whole darn motor and taking apart the bottom end. Thinking about just buying a spare motor for parts if it's not gonna be a cheapish fix.
1983 KZ750 LTD
1982 KZ1100 A2 Cafe

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KZ1100 Performance Upgrade 25 Jun 2019 08:57 #806394

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Drop the pan and see what you got. Might be a broken cam chain guide
Steve
Z1b1000 1975 Z1b
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kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/598262-kz-...-will-it-live#672882
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KZ1100 Performance Upgrade 25 Jun 2019 09:04 #806395

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What type of noise, knocking or rattle?

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KZ1100 Performance Upgrade 25 Jun 2019 11:37 #806402

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SWest the guides looked fine the last three times I've been in the top end and had virtually no wear when I had them out and checked them, so I doubt it's that, but you're right my next step is to pull my pan and see if I can get some clues.
baldy110 it's most definitely a rattle. Loud and only at 5k plus RPM while in gear. I can get the sound out of other gears but it seems to be the worst when in 5th and pulling on the throttle past 5k RPM. If I baby it and keep it below that then everything sounds fine but as soon as I hit that point you know something isn't right. It's gotten worse since the first time I noticed it and this last time I actually experienced power loss.
I stuck my head down there and listened and felt the engine with my hands while riding and like I said hard to say from that, but it felt and sounded like it was in the bottom end towards the rear.
I could also see oil bubbled up into the filter on my crank case breather, which I've never had happen before. Not enough to even leak from it, but a noticeable amount for sure.
1983 KZ750 LTD
1982 KZ1100 A2 Cafe

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Last edit: by Hardgun.

KZ1100 Performance Upgrade 25 Jun 2019 12:23 #806406

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What did the clutch basket springs look like when you had it apart?

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Last edit: by baldy110.

KZ1100 Performance Upgrade 26 Jun 2019 05:39 #806471

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Well the looked fine. I don't have a way to measure the spring tension per FSM and the bike only has a total of 14.5k on it so I assumed (I know bad move) they'd be ok, the whole assembly showed almost no signs of wear and all measurements and clearances checked out.
Got stuck helping a buddy change his brakes he muffed up last night, but Ill pull the whole clutch basket this evening and go over everything, its been over a year since I had it out, might as well replace the springs while I'm there (like I should have done in the first place).
1983 KZ750 LTD
1982 KZ1100 A2 Cafe

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KZ1100 Performance Upgrade 27 Jun 2019 06:06 #806550

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Well I pulled and checked out the clutch basket assembly and plates. Everything checks out great. friction plates are at about half life. I'll go ahead and order clutch springs since I have no way to test the tension on the ones I have. Tonight I'll deglaze my steel plates and drop the oil pan and see if I can figure more out. In summary I don't believe my clutch is the issue.

1983 KZ750 LTD
1982 KZ1100 A2 Cafe
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KZ1100 Performance Upgrade 27 Jun 2019 16:28 #806587

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I was referring to the clutch basket springs NOT the clutch or clutch springs. Ive had the clutch basket springs actually break and come apart then bugger up the tranny gears. They make a terrible noise when they do. Not saying that is your problem but just something else to look for.

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KZ1100 Performance Upgrade 27 Jun 2019 17:22 #806591

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A Harley friend had his engine upgraded by the dealer he purchased the bike from.
Was but two days after the investment his engine ceased making noise. Apparently there was an extra bolt loose inside the engine that wasn't there when he dropped it off.

:pinch:
1982 KZ1100A-2 (sort-of)
January 2016 BOTM

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KZ1100 Performance Upgrade 28 Jun 2019 04:47 #806611

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Ahh I see, the basket springs seemed fine and with the condition its's all in I'm not going to split it and take it apart as they appear just fine. I wondered why you'd ask about the clutch springs, I was honestly just hoping something was loose around there. I know my ign and stator area are all secure as I've checked those, and now I know it most likely wasn't the clutch causing the issue. :sick:
So tonight I get to drop that oil pan and I'll most likely be pulling the engine and splitting the cases.
Daveo, I didn't lose anything at any point, but the top end was off and I had an open engine for a good two months (It was covered, both directly and with a cover over the whole bike in a garage) so to my knowledge nothing ended up in there but I guess crazier things have happened.
Did you tell your buddy to ditch the Harley and pick up a KZ? Seems like the only smart thing to do. :silly:
Anyway, here's a couple more pics from messing with the clutch yesterday:
Before:

After:

And waiting on clutch springs:
1983 KZ750 LTD
1982 KZ1100 A2 Cafe
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Last edit: by Hardgun.

KZ1100 Performance Upgrade 30 Jun 2019 11:07 #806713

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Well I dropped the oil pan yesterday, nothing seemed to crazy out of whack. couple small pieces of aluminum it looked like but who knows what and where that came from. one looked like a piece of a thread so I'm betting that came from the bolt getting pulled out on the cams before I did the helicoil. No chain guide pieces or anything. Next step is to start tearing her down and taking her apart, looks like splitting the case is in my future!
1983 KZ750 LTD
1982 KZ1100 A2 Cafe

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KZ1100 Performance Upgrade 10 Jul 2019 05:24 #807294

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AAAAnnndd I'm back. Finally got around to pulling the top end off the engine last night and I've got good and bad news. Good news is I found the source of the noise and it's the easier fix labor-wise. Bad news is its also potentially the more expensive repair. Looks like Baldy110 may have been right and I trashed two sets of rings and potentially pistons. 3&4 are perfect but it looks like the rings for 1&2 locked up and I was hearing piston rattle.
Now for the questions:
What do you guys think would have caused this? I checked all my ring end gaps and they were all within what MTC called for. Everything appeared to be operating fine to start out but maybe they were muffed up and the oil ring kept it steady enough not to slap at lower RPM?
Ill post some pics down below of the carnage, what do you guys think? are the pistons usable? They're marred pretty bad but it's just at the top and there doesn't appear to be any cracks or anything. Obviously just replacing them would be best, but I don't particularly want to unless MTC is gonna let me buy just two pistons off them. I'm gonna take them off the rods tonight and inspect them more thoroughly but let me know what you guys think about their potential re-use.

Try not to cringe:


1983 KZ750 LTD
1982 KZ1100 A2 Cafe
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KZ1100 Performance Upgrade 10 Jul 2019 05:55 #807296

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Are the wrist pins locked up?
Steve
Z1b1000 1975 Z1b
Opinions expressed by me do not reflect those of the the staff or members
kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/598262-kz-...-will-it-live#672882
kzrider.com/forum/2-engine/597654-poser?start=240#704229

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KZ1100 Performance Upgrade 10 Jul 2019 06:06 #807298

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No, the wrist pins move just as they did when I put the pistons in brand new, no rough movement or feel of locking up when I wiggle the pistons. I'll also be inspecting them better tonight when I take the pistons off.
1983 KZ750 LTD
1982 KZ1100 A2 Cafe

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KZ1100 Performance Upgrade 10 Jul 2019 06:26 #807301

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Side note:
Just contacted MTC and they do sell half piston sets, so I'll just be replacing those two pistons. After I re-hone the jugs. :side:
1983 KZ750 LTD
1982 KZ1100 A2 Cafe

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KZ1100 Performance Upgrade 10 Jul 2019 09:25 #807316

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BETTER SAFE THAN SORRY
Z1b1000 1975 Z1b
Opinions expressed by me do not reflect those of the the staff or members
kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/598262-kz-...-will-it-live#672882
kzrider.com/forum/2-engine/597654-poser?start=240#704229

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KZ1100 Performance Upgrade 10 Jul 2019 09:57 #807320

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The engine got really hot.

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KZ1100 Performance Upgrade 10 Jul 2019 10:03 #807321

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GOOD POINT, #1 SEEMS TO BE THE FIRST TO GO.
Z1b1000 1975 Z1b
Opinions expressed by me do not reflect those of the the staff or members
kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/598262-kz-...-will-it-live#672882
kzrider.com/forum/2-engine/597654-poser?start=240#704229

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KZ1100 Performance Upgrade 10 Jul 2019 10:43 #807324

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Live and learn I suppose.
Guess I'll definitely be using your break in procedure Baldy110! You called that one even before I knew I had an issue.
Do you lube the heck out of your cyl when you do a piston install? I lubed mine a bit but the instructions from MTC say to do it dry.
1983 KZ750 LTD
1982 KZ1100 A2 Cafe

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KZ1100 Performance Upgrade 10 Jul 2019 14:55 #807333

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Dry but I used to lube them and never had an issue either way really.

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Last edit: by baldy110.
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