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Preventing Flash Rust…IMPOSSIBLE!! (prove me wrong)

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27 May 2021 08:57 - 27 May 2021 09:00 #849056 by ScooterZ
Hi everyone,After having de-rusted quite a few tanks I have come to the conclusion that preventing flash rust is IMPOSSIBLE!
Maybe you can prove me wrong with a detailed procedure (no anecdotal evidence will be accepted).
My situation:  I live in southern Calif about 4 miles from the beach.  We are considered a relatively arid area with not a lot of rainfall.  Yesterday the humidity was around 60% with the sun shining.
My Procedure:  I derust using Evapo-Rust or ≈ 40% Phosphoric acid (Klean-Strip Metal Prep).  Both work real well as a derusting agent.  In the past I have used Muriatic Acid, White vinegar and probably other solutions I don’t remember. After derusting I rinse well and here is where the trouble begins…  I remove most of the water and then try to remove any residual water with a solution.  I have used 91% Alcohol and WD40 both of which are supposed to absorb water, all to no avail as the tank still flash rusts.  Now the finished product is still way better than I started with but there is still some surface flash rusting.
Your Challenge… Provide me a detailed procedure to prevent the flash rusting I always seem to get.  Game on. 
Now maybe if I lived in Arizona or the Mojave desert with single digit humidity in the heat of summer I might be able to accomplish the goal. But not practical
I have considered going directly from the Phosphoric acid bath directly to adding gasoline but not sure what this would do.
Thanks guys,  Z

ScottZ

1981 KZ1100A1 Shaft
Last edit: 27 May 2021 09:00 by ScooterZ.

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27 May 2021 09:21 - 27 May 2021 09:22 #849057 by ghostdive
I flush with water, then fill with gas and a container of HEET. It's supposed to absorb water. I'm not sure if I drained that immediately or just ran it, though...unsure of how much per gallon will still run okay. 

P.S. - I think trying to dry it or get all the water out is a bad move - in my experience it doesn't rust as fast when wet. 

1982 KZ750 Spectre - 6 speed swap, BS34s, 18" rear wheel

2001 ZX-6R
Last edit: 27 May 2021 09:22 by ghostdive.
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27 May 2021 10:42 - 27 May 2021 11:02 #849062 by F64
Being by the coast is not helping you. Salt in the air is gonna fight you.

Use distilled water.
This will help but probably won't
completely solve your problem.

Turn on your air conditioner to drop the humidity.

81-KZ440-D2.
Louis Dudzik's GM HEI ignitor conversion installed 2015 s3.amazonaws.com/gpzweb/Ignition/GPZgmHEImod.html
Motogadget m-unit blue installed 2017.
LIC, NY
Last edit: 27 May 2021 11:02 by F64.
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27 May 2021 14:21 #849070 by KZB2 650
Maybe spray it down good with WD40 (and a shot of 3 in 1 oil) right away after the final rinse.

1978 KZ650 b-2
700cc Wiseco kit 10 to 1.
1980 KZ750 cam, ape springs, stock clutch/ Barnett springs.
Vance and Hines Header w/ comp baffle and Ape pods, Dyna S and green coils, copper wires.
29MM smooth bores W/ 17.5 pilots, 0-6s and 117.5 main
16/42 gearing X ring chain and alum rear JT sprocket.
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  • z1kzonly
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27 May 2021 14:56 #849071 by z1kzonly
Blow dry it with compressed air! Or mix real acetone from a collision supply house with water, it mixes! not nail polish remover! Then it will evaporate.
Never use WD-40!! It is for a woman's junk drawer in a home! It's for hinges and drawers! It's 40-50% water to begin with!
That shit sucks! Plain and simple!!!!!
It's a gas tank! Blow it dry! Buy a quart of Marvels Mystery Oil! $5.00-$6.00 depending where you live or store? Pour it in and coat it!  Roll it around! Play with it!
Leave it in for a few days. drain good before you paint tank?
I'm 63, I learned painting and to use Marvels since I was a teenager by the older guys I hung around with. It's in every gas tank I ever had! My 1975 Harley Shovel Head still has the original soft valve seats made for leaded gas. I've been thru 2 sets of valves in 40 years, but never did the valve seats.
Just My Opinion!
At least this is what I do.

Livin in "CheektaVegas, NY
Went thru 25 of these in 40 yrs.
I SOLD OUT! THE KAW BARN IS EMPTY.
More room for The Old Girl, Harley 75 FLH Electra Glide,
Old faithful! Points ign. Bendix Orig. carb.
Starts everytime!

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27 May 2021 16:30 #849080 by Mikaw

Buy a quart of Marvels Mystery Oil! $5.00-$6.00 depending where you live or store? 
It's in every gas tank I ever had! My 1975 Harley Shovel Head still has the original soft valve seats made for leaded gas. I've been thru 2 sets of valves in 40 years, but never did the valve seats.
Just My Opinion!
At least this is what I do.
Marty, do you add it to the fuel? How much per gallon?

1976 KZ 900 A4 kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/613548-1976-kz-900-a4
1976 KZ 900 B1 LTD
1978 KZ 1000 B2 LTD
1980 KZ 750 E1
Kowledge Speaks, But Wisdom Listens.
Jimi Hendrix.
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27 May 2021 16:33 #849081 by ghostdive
Marty, speaking as a woman that uses WD-40 for clutch/throttle cables, throttle tubes, my chain, and pretty much everything else that I can...I don't really agree. I sprayed a bare engine block with WD and 3 years later when I dug it out, no rust. 

That being said, it isn't my first choice for this topic. I'm just kind of irked. 

1982 KZ750 Spectre - 6 speed swap, BS34s, 18" rear wheel

2001 ZX-6R

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27 May 2021 16:49 - 27 May 2021 16:52 #849082 by 650ed

Marty, speaking as a woman that uses WD-40 for clutch/throttle cables, throttle tubes, my chain, and pretty much everything else that I can...I don't really agree. I sprayed a bare engine block with WD and 3 years later when I dug it out, no rust. 

That being said, it isn't my first choice for this topic. I'm just kind of irked. 

 
That's no surprise at all!  The engines on the KZ bikes are made of an aluminum alloy, so no matter what they cannot rust.  Rust occurs on ferrous metal, not aluminum.  Ed

1977 KZ650-C1 Original Owner - Stock (with additional invisible FIAMM horn)
Last edit: 27 May 2021 16:52 by 650ed.

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27 May 2021 17:10 #849084 by Nessism
I use phosphoric acid, Kleen Strip Etch and Prep, to derust.  If you leave it in the tank for a couple of days, shaking the tank every time you remember and rotating it through various positions, it will coat the metal with a thin film which retards rust. After all the rust is gone dump it out and recycle since it can be used again and again.  Now get your hose ready and rinse it quickly.  Shake the tank as hard as possible then dump out the water.  Next is a quart of IA.  Shake and dump.  Then half a can of WD-40.  Again, shake to make sure the entire tank is covered and dump.  There may be some very light flash rusting left behind but it will be very minimal and nothing to worry about.  WD-40 is poor at long term protection but it displaces water well, thus the WD name, and it will hold off the flash rust.  If you want more lasting protection fill the tank with some gasoline or dump in some motor oil and coat the tank with that.  
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27 May 2021 17:37 #849085 by 750 R1

Marty, speaking as a woman that uses WD-40 for clutch/throttle cables, throttle tubes, my chain, and pretty much everything else that I can...I don't really agree. I sprayed a bare engine block with WD and 3 years later when I dug it out, no rust. 

That being said, it isn't my first choice for this topic. I'm just kind of irked. 


 
That's no surprise at all!  The engines on the KZ bikes are made of an aluminum alloy, so no matter what they cannot rust.  Rust occurs on ferrous metal, not aluminum.  Ed
"a bare engine block "

You've made the assumption that "A" bare block was a Kawasaki engine, I read it as a cast iron block seeings though we are talking RUST.....

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27 May 2021 19:50 #849090 by ckahleer
I'm in Richmond, VA. and have de-rusted 3 tanks in the past few years, using acid once and vintager twice. and have not had flash rust problems.
Immediately after pouring out the vintager/acid, fill and flush the tank several times with water. Drop a cloth rag int the tank and shake around. Remove rag and repeat until rags come out dry. Then put a blower/vac tube into the tank and let it blow for 30min until tank is completely dry.
 

94 KE100
81 CM200t
82 KZ305
85 VF1100c
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27 May 2021 20:22 - 27 May 2021 20:22 #849092 by 650ed

Marty, speaking as a woman that uses WD-40 for clutch/throttle cables, throttle tubes, my chain, and pretty much everything else that I can...I don't really agree. I sprayed a bare engine block with WD and 3 years later when I dug it out, no rust. 

That being said, it isn't my first choice for this topic. I'm just kind of irked. 




 
That's no surprise at all!  The engines on the KZ bikes are made of an aluminum alloy, so no matter what they cannot rust.  Rust occurs on ferrous metal, not aluminum.  Ed
"a bare engine block "

You've made the assumption that "A" bare block was a Kawasaki engine, I read it as a cast iron block seeings though we are talking RUST.....
Considering that it stated "..... uses WD-40 for clutch/throttle cables, throttle tubes, my chain,...." I believe the machine in question is a motorcycle.  I could be wrong, but I don't know of recent cars or trucks that use a chain, throttle tubes, etc.  Ed

1977 KZ650-C1 Original Owner - Stock (with additional invisible FIAMM horn)
Last edit: 27 May 2021 20:22 by 650ed.

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