Headlight causing electrical problems?

Thanks for the kind words, but Hell's Bells... it was probably made in Nebraska anyways!

Now take a deeeeep breath and move forward step by step by step by step... I/we have ALL been there, trust me. :blush:

You CAN do this and we can help.

IMHO, The guys have given you the type of advise that Tool-Time-Tim can only dream of... use it.

So what's your first step going to be?


Best of success,
Bill

PS
No Tim's were injured or killed in the making of this thread. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Bill

Honestly, my first step is to go back to Tim and get him to make good on the money he's been paid for this. He is a friend, and a decent, honest man. I have no doubt he'll do it. His problem is he has so many people after him, and has such a kind heart that he can't say "no", so he ends up overcommitting himself. We all know people like that.

I have failed to do a good job of managing him on this. I'm going to do better, and I'm going to start by approaching this as a manager of some 25 years experience rather than as a friend, and lay out a specific plan that must be methodically followed, with specific benchmarks along the way. I have been gritting my teeth to avoid hurting his feelings, but the truth is, if we really are friends, then his feelings should not be hurt as long as I approach him respectfully. Respectfully, but firmly.

Here is my plan. Please feel free to tell me where I need to adjust it.

1. Determine whether the battery is truly bad with a hydrometer. I want the specific results for each cell. if bad, replace.

Question, is there a gel battery that fits a KZ650?

2. Determine whether the charging system is working properly, and, if not, why?

2a. Stator. Less than 1,000 miles on it since it was rewound by Ricks. New mini-harness and male/femal connectors from Ricks, too. Clymer outlines both bench tests for resistance and output tests while running for the stator, there is no reason this stator should not be at the optimal end of the spectrum on all tests. If it's not, I want to know why, and I want that resolved. I also want the specific results of those tests.

2b. Regulator/rectifier. If memory serves me correctly, there are 6 resistors on the regulator/rectifier; 3 per side. Each time the stator has gone out, it has blown all the resistors on one side, I don't recall which. Clymer outlines bench tests for resistance and output tests while running at both idle, and at 3,000 rpm. I want the results of those tests, and if they're not optimal, I want to know why, and I want it resolved. I will not plug yet another 125.00 regulator/rectifier into this thing until I know why it has been eating them.

3. Dim Headlight/12v-8v drop. It seems to me if there are slight drops at every junction along the way, then the obvious solution is to eliminate each drop as it occurs, working towards the headlight.

Question ... can the handlebar switches, ignition switch, etc. be bypassed, or "jumped around". If so, that would seem to me to be the quickest way to eliminate suspects. if you jump around the ignition switch and still get 8v at the headlight, I'd think you probably haven't found your problem.

4. Handlebar switches. The intermittent (and independent) failures of the horn, blinkers and hi/lo headlight switch are enough to warrant a switch rehab of their own accord. The fact that the headlight runs through that switch just makes it even more imperative that these switches be resolved. I've been asking about this since the first time I brought the bike in, now it must happen.

5. Headlight repowering mod. I actually don't want to do this till the problem is found and resolved. While it may itself resolve the problem, there should not be a 4v drop at the headlight, and bypassing it still leaves a big problem in my wiring which could easily cause problems down the road. I view the headlight repowering mod as a better way to wire the headlight, not as a cure for the problems I'm having.

How is the plan so far? What else do I need?

If not already done to assist diagnosis, could jump to known good fully charged car battery (car engine NOT running) and repeat voltage testing while jumped, especially at headlight socket.

Good Fortune!

seanof30306 wrote:

Question ... can the handlebar switches, ignition switch, etc. be bypassed, or "jumped around". If so, that would seem to me to be the quickest way to eliminate suspects. if you jump around the ignition switch and still get 8 v at the headlight, I'd think you probably haven't found your problem.

How is the plan so far? What else do I need?

IMHO, yes you can bypass and go directly. However, your bypass wire MUST have an inline fuse holder with a 10-15 Amp fuse. I had many issues with both my Handlebar Switch Gear.

Plan looks good.

Patton's idea of using a Car Battery is well worth considering... and it's free! :woohoo:

Best of success,
Bill

Just talked to Jeff at Z1, he had some good thoughts.

1. He said handlebar switches are very often problematic and should be looked into. He said they ground through the handlebars, and those grounds aren't often good due to the stem bearings.

2. Before that, even, he suggested disconnecting everything, horn, blinkers, tail light, etc. and see what that does to the 12v 8v drop. If it has gone away, simply reconnect things 1 at a time till it the problem reappears. Then you know where it is.

Regarding my question about "jumping past" the handlebar switches .... if you took them off the handlebars, that would unground them. Would that serve as a "jump around", or would that kill the headlight, too?

2. Before

Another thing that occurred to me. My Dyna S ignition uses more juice than the old points did. Do the Dyna Green coils pull more juice, too? How do I determine how much power they're demanding, and how much should they demand?

seanof30306 wrote:

Another thing that occurred to me. My Dyna S ignition uses more juice than the old points did. Do the Dyna Green coils pull more juice, too? How do I determine how much power they're demanding, and how much should they demand?

I use the same Dyna S Electronic Ignition and Green Dyna Coils. I run them on a separate 5 Amp Fuse for easy troubleshooting. Perhaps hundreds of members use this combo with no charging capacity issues. IMHO, this is not the problem... don't get sidetracked with this... move on with your plan.

Best of success,
Bill

Bill,

I wasn't thinking a properly functioning Dyna S or Dyna Green coils might be causing the problem, I was wanting to check to see that they're drawing what they should so as to eliminate faulty equipment or wiring to, or from them as causal in this.

seanof30306 wrote:

Bill,

I wasn't thinking a properly functioning Dyna S or Dyna Green coils might be causing the problem, I was wanting to check to see that they're drawing what they should so as to eliminate faulty equipment or wiring to, or from them as causal in this.

Oops, it's less than 5 Amps but I never measured it. Others may pipe in with their readings.

Best of success,
Bill

OK, here's where we are.

Tim says he did a voltage loss test on the handlebar switches and found nothing wrong.

Next he put the headlight from a 2-stroke 750 Kawasaki he has on my bike. He says it pulls half the current the bulb I have does.

Even with the headlight disconnected, however, the amp gauge still shows a slight discharge at idle.

Next, he used a booster battery to externally power the coils. Now, no discharge at idle, and with just a blip of the throttle it charges at 10 amps.

Next he checked the draw, and the Dyna Green coils alone are pulling 5 amps at idle. Tim feels this is excessive and thinks it may be the problem. He says he's puzzled because he's never seen an ignition with a problem run good, as this bike does. He said his only experience with with Dyna coils and ignition is one he installed on an LTD 1000, and it worked fine, but he says he still thinks that 5 amps is an excessive amount of current for an ignition to draw.

I went back and checked my original receipt from z1enterprises.com. I definitely got two Dyna DC-1 3.0 ohm Green Coils and a Dyna-S DS-2 electronic ignition, which are the correct parts for my bike.

The first question needing to be answered is, how much power should those coils be drawing? Bill, you said yours were on a 5 amp fuse, so it's less than 5 amps, but the question is, how much less? It seems to me that if you were pulling right at 5 amps, that would occasionally blow the fuse, wouldn't it?

Question #2: Tim measured a 5 amp draw at the coils, alone. Does the Dyna-S ignition draw aditional power, or is it powered solely through the coils?

Question #3: Tim measured the 5 amp draw of the coils at idle. Does that draw go up with rpm? I think not, but I want to be sure.

If not already done, would remove the battery, charge it overnight, and then have it load tested at a local shop or auto parts store. AutoZone provides this service for free.

Also double-check integrity of the connection where ground cable attaches to rear of engine.

Good Fortune!

Also i wouldn't worry about discharge at idle. All you care is at higher RPM while driving. I did an amp test many years ago on my KZ650 and yes there was more power being consumed by the electrics than what charge the battery was getting at idle, but raise up to a couple thousand RPM the charging was fine. That's why the normal checks are always specified to be done at higher RPMs.