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650ed wrote: If it's motorcycle oil the zddp content should be fine. It was reduced/eliminated in car oil because it damaged catalytic converters, but I don't think they messed with motorcycle oil. Ed

I doubt anyone here is using Harley motorcycle oil , but just want to point out Harley synthetic oil is like modern car oil in that it is not meant for wet clutches . Harleys big v twins run a separate oil for the engine , transmissions, and the primary drive containing the wet clutch.
Now no Harley bashing is needed here , But just wanted to clear up which oil isn't a option if you have some in your garages
Dave

650ed wrote: If it's motorcycle oil the zddp content should be fine. It was reduced/eliminated in car oil because it damaged catalytic converters, but I don't think they messed with motorcycle oil. Ed

All common engine oils have ZDDP. Car oils just have less than motorcycle or diesel oils. The typical auto oil has about 750 PPM (parts per million), motorcycle oil is about 1000 and diesel oil is 1200. Of course these are just general numbers, the amount varies depending on the specific formula.

All 10w40 and higher viscosity is not energy conserving by the label, but that being said, what is energy conserving exactly? We think it's the additives that can make a wet clutch slip. That is most of it, but another factor may be simply viscosity. It's entirely possible and probable that even 20w50 automotive oil that has no energy conserving lable still contains the same additives that make 10W30 car oil no good for a wet clutch. The 10W40, and 20W50 type oil can't be labled energy conserving based on viscosity most likely. A 10W40 oil takes 1 pint of gas more than a 10W30 to drive 1000 miles in tests, so not energy conserving no matter what additives may or may not be there.

KZB2 650 wrote: Hey Bounty Hunter when you say you need to add zddp are you talking a specific additive or maybe STP ? Been using 10/40 Valvoline bike oil lately and will probaly stick with it.

I use an additive called ZDDPlus but a half can of STP is probably good enough too. That will add maybe 800 ppm of zinc and not raise the viscosity too much. If you are buying a bike oil it might have some zddp in it (?)

Street Fighter LTD wrote:

650ed wrote: If it's motorcycle oil the zddp content should be fine. It was reduced/eliminated in car oil because it damaged catalytic converters, but I don't think they messed with motorcycle oil. Ed

I doubt anyone here is using Harley motorcycle oil , but just want to point out Harley synthetic oil is like modern car oil in that it is not meant for wet clutches . Harleys big v twins run a separate oil for the engine , transmissions, and the primary drive containing the wet clutch.
Now no Harley bashing is needed here , But just wanted to clear up which oil isn't a option if you have some in your garages
Dave

Harley specific oil has to be environmentally friendly because so much of it re enters the environment so quickly past their gaskets and seals.....

Nessism wrote:

650ed wrote: If it's motorcycle oil the zddp content should be fine. It was reduced/eliminated in car oil because it damaged catalytic converters, but I don't think they messed with motorcycle oil. Ed

All common engine oils have ZDDP. Car oils just have less than motorcycle or diesel oils. The typical auto oil has about 750 PPM (parts per million), motorcycle oil is about 1000 and diesel oil is 1200.

I can't get a straight answer on that. The only thing most agree on is that car oils have to have LESS THAN 800 ppm, but they don't say what they do contain. I have read that some of the newer SN grades have 400 ppm but nobody knows for sure because (say it with me) they don't put it on the label.

But if it is 750 ppm, I think that's low for a flat tappet engine. Optimum would be more like 1500 - 2k ppm.

RonKZ650 wrote: All 10w40 and higher viscosity is not energy conserving by the label, but that being said, what is energy conserving exactly? We think it's the additives that can make a wet clutch slip. That is most of it, but another factor may be simply viscosity. It's entirely possible and probable that even 20w50 automotive oil that has no energy conserving lable still contains the same additives that make 10W30 car oil no good for a wet clutch. The 10W40, and 20W50 type oil can't be labled energy conserving based on viscosity most likely. A 10W40 oil takes 1 pint of gas more than a 10W30 to drive 1000 miles in tests, so not energy conserving no matter what additives may or may not be there.

Good point. Too bad oil isn't food or the government would make them put a label on it that tells you what's in it.......

One other problem with car oil is the amount of moly they may contain; in general, moly is not good for wet clutches. I have seen oil analyses where different car oils contain anywhere from 40 ppm to more than 500ppm.

It would be helpful to the consumer if the oil companies would simply publish the contents of their oil, but they may be changing their formulas so often that it would scare the consumer. Instead, one must look online to find oil analyses, but those may not represent the current content of the oil in question if the formula has been changed.

This is one more reason I'll continue to use oil that is JASO-MA compliant in my bike. The content of it may change somewhat too, but it should not change to the point that it will be harmful to my bike's clutch. Ed

I feel like I just went to collage, but this into is awesome to know all of this thank u guys. Safe riding brothers

bountyhunter wrote:

Nessism wrote:

650ed wrote: If it's motorcycle oil the zddp content should be fine. It was reduced/eliminated in car oil because it damaged catalytic converters, but I don't think they messed with motorcycle oil. Ed

All common engine oils have ZDDP. Car oils just have less than motorcycle or diesel oils. The typical auto oil has about 750 PPM (parts per million), motorcycle oil is about 1000 and diesel oil is 1200.

I can't get a straight answer on that. The only thing most agree on is that car oils have to have LESS THAN 800 ppm, but they don't say what they do contain. I have read that some of the newer SN grades have 400 ppm but nobody knows for sure because (say it with me) they don't put it on the label.

But if it is 750 ppm, I think that's low for a flat tappet engine. Optimum would be more like 1500 - 2k ppm.

Go to the Bob Is The Oil Guy forum and check the oil analysis threads. Lots of good info there. Looking through some threads there and can't see any oils as low as 400. 600 PPM is about the minimum, but I'm certainly no expert.

Does anyone know approximately when Castrol changed the formula on the GTX?
Five or six years ago I found the 4 gallon bottles of 20w-50w GTX on sale for something crazy, like $8.99 at Wallmart (or equiv) and I bought six of them.... been using it up over the years and oil changed the bike a month ago with the last of it.
Dump it out and change the filter?
Tossed the bottle weeks ago,
Bugs me now because I have three, 1g bottles of the Rotella T 15w-40w I could have used this time.

missionkz wrote: Does anyone know approximately when Castrol changed the formula on the GTX?
Five or six years ago I found the 4 gallon bottles of 20w-50w GTX on sale for something crazy, like $8.99 at Wallmart (or equiv) and I bought six of them.... been using it up over the years and oil changed the bike a month ago with the last of it.
Dump it out and change the filter?
Tossed the bottle weeks ago,
Bugs me now because I have three, 1g bottles of the Rotella T 15w-40w I could have used this time.

Its been way longer than that