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Loud 26 Feb 2008 15:53 #197139

  • Skyman
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Thanks for the ideas, guys. I am on the road this week, but when I get back this weekend, I'll check those out.

B)
West Linn, OR

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Loud 26 Feb 2008 17:27 #197151

  • kzwolfsr
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Listen and heed floridabiker's advice. From what you describe on the condition of the gear teeth, I would listen to the florida man and check that out first before serious teardown!
1979 KZ SR650, stock candy persimmon red and crossover pipes
1981 KZ 1000LTD with non stock and more comfortable handle bars and 4 into one V&H
Original man of the Caribbean

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Loud 28 Feb 2008 07:00 #197352

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FloridaBiker wrote:

I had the same problem on a '83 KZ1000 CSR.
It drove me crazy trying to figure it out.
Many dollars and hours later, the solution turned out to be simple.
The advance plate (right end of crankshaft) was sticking and caused to timing to be too advanced.
I am not sure if the noise was detonation, starter 'kicking' back, or what.
In any event, soaking the advance mechanism in WD40, cleaning it and lubing it solved the problem.


Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I think this is a plausible cause of the problem. Remember how I wrote that I was unable to duplicate the problem when I was cranking with the stator cover off? Well, at that time, I also had unplugged all the plug wires so that it wouldn't startup while cranking. So there's a good possibility I wasn't able to duplicate the problem because the real issue is a mis-timed spark. And with the plugs unplugged, no spark was happening.

I'll be home on Saturday, and I'll take a look at the advance assembly. Thanks.
West Linn, OR

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Loud 01 Mar 2008 09:20 #197726

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Yeah I was gonna suggest that it was a misfire, but the Milkman's post about the starter clutch re-engage making a loud noise is very interesting.
1983 KZ1100-L1 "LTD Shaft"
Wiseco 10.5:1 1171 piston kit, bored by APE
Dyna 2000, Dyna S, Dyna grey coils, WG coil power mod, CB900 starter

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Loud 03 Mar 2008 10:23 #198139

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Well guys, I took apart my ignition advancer, cleaned it, and lubed it up real good. Put it all back together, and tried to start it. Got the same result.

I listened real carefully this time, and I really think that it is not caused by any kind of misfire. It is definitely coming from the starter clutch area, and sounds like gears slipping. So, I'm thinking it IS because the starter clutch is disengaging and re-engaging.

Now, whether it is because the starter clutch is bad, or because the starter motor is not spinning fast enough (as Milkman suggested) I do not know. I can say that, when engaged, it cranks very slowly, even with a fully charged battery. So I'm leaning towards the starter as the culprit. I guess my next step is to remove the starter and inspect it. Any suggestions on what to look for?

Thanks.
West Linn, OR

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Loud clunk noise when cranking--bad starter clutch? 03 Mar 2008 10:53 #198148

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Pick up a set of rollers and springs for your starter clutch. I did that and my noise problem went away. I doubt if you need to replace the starter clutch housing, the expensive part. With the alternator cover off, reach behind the stator and see if you can move the starter clutch. I could move mine indicating the bolts holding it to the stator were loose/broken. I picked up replacement bolts at the hardware store, a bunch cheaper than the dealer....chris3
1982 KZ1100 A2
1982 1100 SPECTRE
1982 1100 SPECTRE

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Loud clunk noise when cranking--bad starter clutch?--Update 20 Mar 2008 09:22 #201180

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Okay guys, I think the problem is fixed.

My solution was to pick up a starter on EBay from a 1980 Honda CB900f and install it. It bolted right in, but it was a royal PITA to clearance the sproket cover to allow for the different position of the power lug. A lot of filing and grinding, trial and error until I finally got it so it wouldn't short out against the sprocket cover. :angry:

But I am VERY pleased with the results. :cheer:

Previously, after I installed the 10.25 CR pistons, the starter would really struggle: "Woo-woo....woo-woo....woo-woo...POP...woo-woo". Sounded like the battery was dead, even when the engine was warm, the only way to start it was to push-n-bump.

Now, it spins up like it's supposed to: "Woo-woo-woo-woo-woo-woo-woo" and no slipping "POP" noise. Yeah! :cheer:

The change from the .6Kw KZ stock starter to the .8Kw Honda starter made a HUGE difference.
West Linn, OR

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Loud clunk noise when cranking--bad starter clutch?--Update 20 Mar 2008 17:14 #201253

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Skyman wrote:

Okay guys, I think the problem is fixed.

My solution was to pick up a starter on EBay from a 1980 Honda CB900f and install it. It bolted right in, but it was a royal PITA to clearance the sproket cover to allow for the different position of the power lug. A lot of filing and grinding, trial and error until I finally got it so it wouldn't short out against the sprocket cover. :angry:

But I am VERY pleased with the results. :cheer:

Previously, after I installed the 10.25 CR pistons, the starter would really struggle: "Woo-woo....woo-woo....woo-woo...POP...woo-woo". Sounded like the battery was dead, even when the engine was warm, the only way to start it was to push-n-bump.

Now, it spins up like it's supposed to: "Woo-woo-woo-woo-woo-woo-woo" and no slipping "POP" noise. Yeah! :cheer:

The change from the .6Kw KZ stock starter to the .8Kw Honda starter made a HUGE difference.


Thats fantastic! The techie is me wants to know how you figured out the Kw for each of the starters. You could post pics of your cover post grinding. We could make it a cool addition like the coil powering mod!

thanks...Sam
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Current Rides: 2013 BMW R1200GSW, 1972 BMW R75/5
Current Project: 1978 KZ1000A2: Supercrank'd by Falicon, APE studs and nuts, Dyna Green coils, powder coated frame and fenders, Stainless brake lines, dual front discs, pods, Kerker Exhaust, 1075cc with JE pistons

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Loud clunk noise when cranking--bad starter clutch?--Update 21 Mar 2008 09:41 #201377

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Samwell wrote:

Thats fantastic! The techie is me wants to know how you figured out the Kw for each of the starters. You could post pics of your cover post grinding. We could make it a cool addition like the coil powering mod!

thanks...Sam


Sam,

The first question is easy. The Kw rating is stamped on the starter body. The stock KZ starter says "0.6Kw". The Honda Starter says "0.8Kw". Doesn't seem like much of a difference, but that's a 33% boost in cranking power. And I'm telling you, it made a HUGE difference.

As for pics of my grinding work, that's not going to happen soon. I didn't photograph my work, and I'm not about to take the cover back off for a while, even though I've gotten quite good at it from about a dozen cycles of removing it and reinstalling it while I worked on getting sufficient clearance for the power bolt.

However, I did dig up a photo of the same cover off of an ebay listing, and I have pointed out the area where you need to grind to make it fit. Hope this helps:
West Linn, OR
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Loud clunk noise when cranking--bad starter clutch?--Update 21 Mar 2008 11:22 #201419

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Hey, gang, just thought I'd pass along some useful info on Starter clutches.
I just recieved my order from Bike Bandit, I ordered the hub,rollers pins and springs. But I found out that the Hub comes full dressed alredy!!:laugh: , so now I have an extra set set of springs ,rollers and pin:blink: .Thought you all might want to know that before ordering.

'78 KZ 650 C2. O yeah , I paid 92 bucks Us for the hub assembly.Happy wrenching!!

MAC
'78 KZ650 C2,810 conversion,stock kz 750 cams,with a Blueprinted Head both from a '81 KZ 750. BS 34 Mikunis, Mac /Kerker 4 into 1 with custom 2" comp baffle. 3 rd owner
'02 ZRX1200R, 3rd owner
'83 XR200R, 3 rd owner
'84 V65 Sabre 3 rd owner

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Loud clunk noise when cranking--bad starter clutch?--Update 20 Apr 2008 21:58 #207939

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I just put a Honda starter in my KZ1000.All you have to do is take out the tuo long bolts and turn the housing and end caps.That will put the starter lug to the rear like the stock KZ starter.It turns over my 1200 cc engine with no trouble.

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