TOPIC:

Water?
For me...
my scooter...
my car...
my bike...

No water please!

Irish-Kawi wrote:

TexasKZ wrote: Do you think that ceramic coating the piston crowns, chambers and ports might help with cooling by passing the heat out rather than letting it soak into the head?

From a purely "lab" setting absolutely.... ceramic coating typically offers two main advantages. One of them is reduction in friction which increases lifespan of parts. The second is that it acts as a thermal barrier either keeping heat in (coating inside of headers to keep the heat retained and move it out quicker and increase velocity) or keeping heat out (just the reverse). In the real world this still holds true, however the benefits may or may not be as great as lab testing would show since there are so many more variables and can't keep things exactly the same from one change to another.

So I would say that yes it is beneficial but I really am not sure the cost would justify the high cost of doing so. If you did I would say you would want to coat the pistons, combustion chamber and headers at the minimum. Just my two cents..

Brett

Yep, coating would make sense on paper. Definitely the headers. Not the intake ports! My fear of coating engine internal surfaces would be a fragment of hard ceramic coating becoming dislodged and destroying the engine...maybe only coat the exhaust ports - maybe...

And yes, I am aware that many engines have ceramic coated cylinders...but I still wouldn't trust coated piston crowns and combustion chambers...

i have ran locally ceramic coated domes and teflon coated skirts on forged wiseco pistons in my banshee for years with great results.

the teflon is like bearings for the skirt and the ceramic helps protect the the dome from lean outs.

imho,
leon

Not super into the water cooled idea, sounds like a bunch of extra weight and an eyesore as well. I will report my findings on overheating with the dual oil cooler and top end oiler setup. A small rear mounted fan will likely be an addition to the rear cooler.

Kray-Z and i have been putting our heads together on these builds and hes helped me nearly every step of the way,hes also always offered to help out with his milling machine fabricating parts for our bikes. He knows his shit too.

Out of town this week and not able to work on the bike for a bit. When I come back ill be fabbing up my custom intake manifold.

I dont want to run pod filters due to poor performance caused by turbulence and hot air intake. I also dont want to run velocity stacks on an engine that I just spent too many thousands of $$$ on. So underneath the seat will be a dual flange air filter with two 2-1 merge collectors going into the 4 throttle bodies. A heat shield between the engine and underseat area will also be fabbed to keep the hot air out. Pics to come when its all built.

531blackbanshee wrote: i have ran locally ceramic coated domes and teflon coated skirts on forged wiseco pistons in my banshee for years with great results.

the teflon is like bearings for the skirt and the ceramic helps protect the the dome from lean outs.

imho,
leon

Teflon I would do no question. Not likely to cause catastrophic failure if it flakes off. Ceramic coat, on the other hand...

Your local sources must be better than ours. Our local outfits can't even get chrome to stay on a bumper for a week...and don't bother asking for a quote, either...they always say leave the parts with them and they will figure out a hostage ransom price when it's done. It might take anywhere from two weeks to two decades. Don't expect any warranty, either. How's that for customer service?

No wonder I get everything I can't do myself done in the U.S.A.

Kray-Z wrote:

531blackbanshee wrote: i have ran locally ceramic coated domes and teflon coated skirts on forged wiseco pistons in my banshee for years with great results.

the teflon is like bearings for the skirt and the ceramic helps protect the the dome from lean outs.

imho,
leon

Teflon I would do no question. Not likely to cause catastrophic failure if it flakes off. Ceramic coat, on the other hand...

Your local sources must be better than ours. Our local outfits can't even get chrome to stay on a bumper for a week...and don't bother asking for a quote, either...they always say leave the parts with them and they will figure out a hostage ransom price when it's done. It might take anywhere from two weeks to two decades. Don't expect any warranty, either. How's that for customer service?

No wonder I get everything I can't do myself done in the U.S.A.

A friend of mine is doing up his Z900 (now Z1260) apart from many external mods (including Kevlar wheels/ forks from an R6) he has ceramic coating on the ports, head, exhaust pipe and he has teflon (I believe) coating on the pistons.
He should have this bike going in about three weeks, he is also worried about overheating (Perth Australia can get very hot) so he went to all this trouble to avoid an engine failure.

Finally got a bit more done on this project recently. Built an intake manifold that goes through a firewall and grabs air via a K&N filter underneath the seat. Only mocked up right now, waiting for my silicone couplers and then ill powder coat it and throw it in the oven.
Not only does this cut down on the issue of turbulence when using pod filters (see Greg Cope's tuning tips), it also keeps got air out and gives me the ability to mount a bung for my intake air temp sensor.
Also got my crankshaft back from Fast by Gast, top notch work, well worth the money. The engine will be going together in the coming days,
Head was sent out for a valve job and the GSXR injectors are getting cleaned, balanced, and spray pattern checked. Hopefully this will be a running bike in the coming weeks.

Re Cooling: my thoughts are to get the max airflow over the motor, repositioning the oil coolers to headlight or tail might be an idea.

Also I like the earlier kz pre gpz type of finned exhaust collets, with extra long studs and pike nuts. Matt black is the best colour for radiating heat.

There is also the possibility of drilling the fins with small holes to increase cooling ,this is controversial but the science seems to make sense to me.

Has anyone tried water injection on one of these?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_injection_(engine)

The finned exhaust collets on the earlier KZ (like my Z1R) are not really better because they are metal cast which holds heat, whereas the aluminium cast ala GPZ collets should dissipate better.
With the fins being drilled, keep in mind that surface area exposed to the air is the critical part, if you expose more area by drilling than it works but in some cases you lessen the surface area by drilling so it might not (not 100% certain of this theory with air flow involved).

The earlier aircooled two strokes also had issues with the fins where they "ringed" under certain vibration (because the fins were very deep) so they fitted rubber bungs.
Where is the battery stowed? just curious. This bike will be a monster, can't wait to hear how it goes.

One thing I have noticed with my FJ1200 (standard apart from porting, exhaust and minor changes) in the Perth (Oz) summer I lose a lot of power compared to now (our winter), During the summer some bikes (friends) would pull away at certain speeds but now its the FJ that is the more powerful, so aircooled bikes suffer a lot (without going through re-jetting) compared to the liquid cooled.

Theory is correct.
More area expose, better Exchange.

Like a big radiator vs. Small radiator.

Is there any downside to drilling the fins ? I am very tempted to try it!

Mk2Rookie wrote: Is there any downside to drilling the fins ? I am very tempted to try it!

If not done for lightness the hole you drill must be the same or smaller diameter than the thickness of the material you are drilling or you will actually reduce the exposed surface area you are trying to shed heat from.
A hole the same diameter as the thickness will increase the exposed surface area approx. 2.5 times but there is an offset due to the loss of heat sink capability from the material removed.
Big holes positioned correctly can help channel cooling air to unexposed hot spots at speed but will make the thing run hotter in traffic etc.
Drilling a large shallow counter sunk hole (dimple ) that does not fully penetrate through the material will increase exposed surface area whilst minimising the loss of heat sink material available .
Yoshimura used to cover the engine crankcase and barrel surfaces with these dimples to increase the surface area whilst also losing weight.