TOPIC:

Alex.... whatever transpired between you and Pittstop is none of my business. I will state without any hesitation that Joe Hooper has been a solid, proven individual and businessman with many members of this forum. In fact, If I'm too busy to build an engine or if during a phone call with a potential customer I discover they are close to Joe's shop, I have referred them to Joe because it just makes sense.

Also, J motors were oil leaking mothers right from the factory. That's a fact. I worked on those things when they were brand new, under warranty. Oil leaks were an everyday issue with them. Head gaskets were especially troublesome. That's not to make excuses...it's just plain truth.

I wish you success with your situation. I suggest a good sealant on all gaskets in that motor. Permatex Moto Seal is a very good product. Very similar to Honda, Kawasaki or Yamabond but commonly available and priced reasonably as well. I recently built a 1428 on a KZ bottom end and those things can be troublesome with oil leaks at the base & head surfaces. I used sealant on both surfaces. After a full season of hill climbing it's still dry... so I know for a fact that stuff will do the job...

Also Immediate retorque o the head aftger the first heat cycle is an absolute must. Fire the engine. Bring it up to temperature by running it for several minutes. Shut it down and let it get STONE COLD. Then go over the head nuts an bolts again with a torque wrench. I would repeat that after 100 miles.... it certainly can't hurt.

If Joe is sick as was mentioned I wish him a speedy and full recovery...

Larry C

Hey Larry,

Thank you very much for your advice. I'm not a machinist, but a new-car technician who's been sealing, assembling, and diagnosing engines for a lot of years (mostly with GM, so I know leaks). And the no-doubt facts are, if a head or block deck isn't flat (out of specs) it's gonna leak. If you paint gasket surfaces, they're gonna leak. That's what I dealt with on this rebuild. I had the decks machined flat, cleaned off the paint, used OEM gaskets -- and the top-end, all the engine covers and the pan, no longer leak, at all.

These air cooled engines are a bit different than a car. On a car, as long as the coolant system is functional, and the fans are working, you can sit there all day in the middle of the summer and never go above normal operating temperature. On an air cooled bike, stuck in traffic for a relatively short period of time, temperatures skyrocket and aluminum warps.

I think that might be a big reason behind head gasket leaks on a lot of these engines. And trying to reseal without precision machining, can be like paddling upstream. I've learned from other folks that I should have also pulled the jugs and machined the bottom of the block, but I think I may have gotten away with that one.

The only sealant I used was Hondabond around the cam plugs, and likewise if I ever get the time and split the case to fix the final leak. Kawasaki gaskets are expensive, but thicker and coated with a sealant film.

Also learned something from a buddy who did a lot of years working on all the CHPs KZs. I used the OEM 1100 head gaskets on my engine with the 1075cc kit to compensate for the wider bore. It worked great!

I've learned a lot about the "J" engine though this whole process, and it's made me appreciate them even more.

autotech2@tx.rr.com wrote:

Alex.... whatever transpired between you and Pittstop is none of my business. I will state without any hesitation that Joe Hooper has been a solid, proven individual and businessman with many members of this forum. In fact, If I'm too busy to build an engine or if during a phone call with a potential customer I discover they are close to Joe's shop, I have referred them to Joe because it just makes sense.

Also, J motors were oil leaking mothers right from the factory. That's a fact. I worked on those things when they were brand new, under warranty. Oil leaks were an everyday issue with them. Head gaskets were especially troublesome. That's not to make excuses...it's just plain truth.

I wish you success with your situation. I suggest a good sealant on all gaskets in that motor. Permatex Moto Seal is a very good product. Very similar to Honda, Kawasaki or Yamabond but commonly available and priced reasonably as well. I recently built a 1428 on a KZ bottom end and those things can be troublesome with oil leaks at the base & head surfaces. I used sealant on both surfaces. After a full season of hill climbing it's still dry... so I know for a fact that stuff will do the job...

Also Immediate retorque o the head aftger the first heat cycle is an absolute must. Fire the engine. Bring it up to temperature by running it for several minutes. Shut it down and let it get STONE COLD. Then go over the head nuts an bolts again with a torque wrench. I would repeat that after 100 miles.... it certainly can't hurt.

If Joe is sick as was mentioned I wish him a speedy and full recovery...

Larry C

Hey Larry,

Thank you very much for your advice. I'm not a machinist, but a new-car technician who's been sealing, assembling, and diagnosing engines for a lot of years (mostly with GM, so I know leaks). And the no-doubt facts are, if a head or block deck isn't flat (out of specs) it's gonna leak. If you paint gasket surfaces, they're gonna leak. That's what I dealt with on this rebuild. I had the decks machined flat, cleaned off the paint, used OEM gaskets -- and the top-end, all the engine covers and the pan, no longer leak, at all.

These air cooled engines are a bit different than a car. On a car, as long as the coolant system is functional, and the fans are working, you can sit there all day in the middle of the summer and never go above normal operating temperature. On an air cooled bike, stuck in traffic for a relatively short period of time, temperatures skyrocket and aluminum warps.

I think that might be a big reason behind head gasket leaks on a lot of these engines. And trying to reseal without precision machining, can be like paddling upstream. I've learned from other folks that I should have also pulled the jugs and machined the bottom of the block, but I think I may have gotten away with that one.

The only sealant I used was Hondabond around the cam plugs, and likewise if I ever get the time and split the case to fix the final leak. Kawasaki gaskets are expensive, but thicker and coated with a sealant film.

Also learned something from a buddy who did a lot of years working on all the CHPs KZs. I used the OEM 1100 head gaskets on my engine with the 1075cc kit to compensate for the wider bore. It worked great!

I've learned a lot about the "J" engine though this whole process, and it's made me appreciate them even more.

Retorque the head after the first heat cycle.... The count of the number of head gaskets, 1 vs 2 is not the issue. Both types work.

Vesrah gasket sets are first rate. I use them in everything. I also use the one piece head gaskets in all the big bore motors I do. I like them....they work great

As you have discovered, members here like Joe and didn't like to see him bashed, myself included. That wouldn't have happened if the situation you describe was "the norm". Things can go bad sometimes. As for what came first to cause the bad.... that's always a case of finger pointing and we all know how that washes out....

I would appreciate it if you would kill that post on Dragbike. You vented your issues here. Enough is enough...Don't ya think

Blue Hylomar!!! I learned this from the late, great Elmer Trett!
This was the only sealant that sealed his top fuel nitro heads!

Autotech, RE: Megacycle : Randy at RPM is a true gentleman, ask any FJ owner that reads/ writes to the forum. The wife of the Megacycle owner basically told Randy to F ' off (not exactly those words).
I paid for all the lobes to be re-built. After 5,000kms the other lobes went, as it turned out they only repaired the worn lobes and left the low wear lobes as they were, the bastards ripped me off.
RPM now deals with WEB cams. I now run the standard cams that are now 190,000kms old (so much for me using bad oil, with bad valve springs).
I could be wrong but don't the cam sprockets have a recess on one side, in theory the timing would be out but could that be your problem?

Retorque the head after the first heat cycle.... The count of the number of head gaskets, 1 vs 2 is not the issue. Both types work.

Vesrah gasket sets are first rate. I use them in everything. I also use the one piece head gaskets in all the big bore motors I do. I like them....they work great

Absolutely on re-torqueing. Although I read Jay at APE saying it wasn't necessary with their over-sized studs -- I did it anyway after the first run, then again at a couple hundred miles. On the original build it had no effect on stopping the leaks.

With the APE studs I went 40ft.lbs on the nuts. I've noticed that a lot of folks just go over the nuts(and bolts) with a torque wrench. But I even saw it in the KZ manual that you should back-off half a turn, then re-torque, one at a time in the torque sequence. So I go that route. I think, this is more accurate because it eliminates the extra force needed to break the nuts loose just going tighter. On the other hand, if using sealant, I'd be worried backing off might effect the adhesion to metal.

On a lot of new car engines composition/fiber/paper gaskets are obsolete. Like Honda for the past 10 years, head gaskets are layered steel. All others are steel, rubber, or a bead of Hondabond (or Ultra-Flange).

I posted the forums at the same time, and I can't delete a thread. At this point I just want to help the reasonable people on the forum with what I've learned. That's what it's all about -- right?

Blue Falcon

38 year old motor..change the oil and ride the tired thing...but then I aint all smart like you guys who work on your bikes all time....big hp and big tools...little man parts

my point?

this is the 373rd thread I have seen about guys paying someone else to "build" the engine....or related to a bumped up engine and or cams....why....why do it....why not go stock and get like 30+ years between builds...sure I would like trick engine...but until I know for certain that I have the knowledge to 'hire the knowledge.....also a simple valve and seats and guide job could be done --along with a refresh bore and piston kit and that would be plenty...why go all cams and springs and porting and advance timing..unless you ,yourself, can do that work and know it is done right...the evidence against trick builds ...builds daily

Bozo wrote: Autotech, RE: Megacycle : Randy at RPM is a true gentleman, ask any FJ owner that reads/ writes to the forum. The wife of the Megacycle owner basically told Randy to F ' off (not exactly those words).
I paid for all the lobes to be re-built. After 5,000kms the other lobes went, as it turned out they only repaired the worn lobes and left the low wear lobes as they were, the bastards ripped me off.
RPM now deals with WEB cams. I now run the standard cams that are now 190,000kms old (so much for me using bad oil, with bad valve springs).
I could be wrong but don't the cam sprockets have a recess on one side, in theory the timing would be out but could that be your problem?

You know, I may have spoken to that pleasant lady you're referring to. It's been a while and can't remember how exactly I ruled out the sprockets as a cause to being off center. They can only go on one way, and I believe the surface that bolts to the cam is dead center to the teeth, just like OEM.

On another call to Megacycle, I did get through to a tech with a valve clearance question. When doing clearance by the book with the cams in the correct positions, the clearance is tighter due to spring tension and cam bearing clearance, than it is with the lobes straight up (perpendicular to the shim/bucket/valve). As much as .003". The tech said to go straight up due to the added lift and duration of the aftermarket cams. So I'm gonna try that at my next adjust.

I guess that is what I'm trying to say...i do a ton of research and face to face phone calls before I agree to get something fixed or sent out...and this is just fishing reels ...no way I'm gonna take my great running 38 year old bike apart to send it to someone who I have not reviewed and cover with voice to voice the what if and whys...no friggin way....then later complain that I got screwed......hand me a ten dollar bill..wait for it...................................shame on you

Motor Head wrote: Not to high jack your thread on Pitstop Performance, but:
Lately it seems to be an industry problem. We at our shop have had bad work done from nearly everywhere we send stuff out to. Seems like either the worst luck ever or a plague.
Guides not reamed, seats that are porous, rebuilt engines that Knock from piston clearance cold, low engine vacuum and no power, a particular Lotus engine that smokes like crazy under power and misses at Idle which just was rebuilt. Auto transmissions that leak from nearly every seal and gasket, and turn around time on any job seems to be really excessive.
I know a lot of the replacement parts quality is shot to hell, thats been an ongoing issue now for a very long time. But how can someone do a valve job without reaming the new guides, have seats that are porous, IN seats that have a single angle and contact none of the valve face, 50% + leakage, get sent out from a shop that has been in business 50 years??? Cost our shop another $500 to have them redone at another place, as the first shop would do nothing without returning them to there place. They already had them 6+ weeks, and the customer was getting really pissed.
Way to many button pushers these days and not enough hands on skills. Its Killing this country!!!!!!!!!!

???????????????

Are those plugs to long or is that just an optical illusion

KawC2 wrote: Well looks like lightning does strike twice in the same spot.

I have my bike in the project section. I am getting close to firing it up but thought I might do some pre start-up checking. First I had the head done at Pit Stop Performance with the works that he offers for $395.00 I think it's been a year. I did a compression test and had no compression AT ALL. So I break out the leak down kit and give it a shot and I was at a 100 % leaking. I pulled the head and jugs I thought maybe the rings were stuck from setting so long. I found all the rings were free and non binding anywhere. So I turned the head up side down and poured in some mineral spirits into all the combustion chamber and the MS poured out as fast as i poured it in on # 4 and #3, #1 was holding but #2 leaked all out within 5 mins. and I know that I'm new here but, bad work is bad work even if you are new to the forum. I'm adding a few pics of the first 5 mins of pouring in the MS. You cant tell very good but some chambers are only half full and leaking as i took the pix. I do have a receipt and will share. So let me add that I too have been struck by lightning.

Hey KawC2,

The fluid leaking straight past the valves is definitely NG. But 0 psi compression and 100% leakdown on all cylinders doesn't seem possible. If #1 was holding fluid it wouldn't be anywhere near 100% leakdown past the valves. Where did you hear the air coming out? Intake, exhaust, or crankcase?

Are you absolutely sure you were dead-on with cam timing and valve clearance?